b2b sales Archives - FastSpring eCommerce Solutions for the Digital Economy Fri, 12 Dec 2025 03:51:05 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 Fastspring Joins The HubSpot App Marketplace https://fastspring.com/blog/fastspring-joins-hubspot-app-marketplace/ Tue, 09 Dec 2025 21:16:01 +0000 https://fastspring.com/?p=30975 FastSpring is excited to announce that we've brought our HubSpot integration to the HubSpot App Marketplace. Check out our announcement to learn more.

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]]> We’re excited to announce that FastSpring is now listed in the HubSpot App Marketplace. As an App partner, we’ve built an integration with HubSpot and have been accepted to the App Marketplace.

The FastSpring HubSpot integration simplifies the operational management of products, pricing, and user accounts via automatic data transfer from FastSpring systems to and from HubSpot. 

This allows businesses to combine FastSpring’s powerful payments and subscription management with HubSpot’s robust CRM capabilities, enabling sales teams to generate quotes directly from HubSpot deals and having them paid and fulfilled via FastSpring payments and subscriptions.

Learn more about the integration on the Hubspot App Marketplace or at FastSpring.

About FastSpring: FastSpring is how SaaS, software, digital products, and video game companies sell online in more places around the world. We handle every payment need — from subscription management to tax collection, remittance, and more — so your business can go farther, faster. We’re also the leading merchant of record for global software companies, powering over a billion dollars in worldwide transactions every year. We’ll manage your checkout, VAT and sales taxes, compliance, and more, freeing you to focus on what you do best: building great software.

The post Fastspring Joins The HubSpot App Marketplace appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> EP30: How oeksound Took Their Audio Plugins Business Global https://fastspring.com/blog/how-oeksound-took-their-audio-plugins-business-global/ Thu, 06 Mar 2025 15:00:00 +0000 https://fastspring.com/?p=30189 Hannes Andersson of oeksound explains how pricing & trial options and a focus on good UX are key for selling audio plugins internationally.

The post EP30: How oeksound Took Their Audio Plugins Business Global appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> When the first oeksound plugin, Soothe, was created in 2016, creator Olli Keskinen and his friend Hannes Andersson were studying music technology to become recording engineers. And as Hannes puts it, they weren’t in the plugin industry or experienced with software ecommerce when Olli’s plugin quickly became popular, thanks to a simple post on a popular online audio forum. 

Today, oeksound is a global software company in the audio and video space, with their plugins used by some hugely recognizable names in the music industry.

To learn more about how they did it, listen for the full insights into:

  • How oeksound’s pricing and trial options make their products more accessible to more users.
  • Why the user experience and user feedback is so important for improving and marketing plugins.
  • Why a frictionless purchase process is such a key focus for oeksound to continue expanding their sales.

To hear all this and more about oeksound’s experience with taking their plugin business global, listen or watch now!

Jump to video.  |  Jump to transcript.

Podcast Full Interview: Audio

Listen on Apple Podcasts
Listen on Spotify

Listen online or find it on more podcast services.

Podcast Full Interview: Video

Transcript

Jesse Paliotto (00:04)

Hello everyone and welcome to Growth Stage, a podcast by FastSpring where we discuss how digital product companies grow revenue, build meaningful products and increase the value of their business. I’m your host Jesse Paliotto. I support the digital product community as part of my role with FastSpring and I love being able to hang out with just phenomenal people here on the Growth Stage podcast. And today the phenomenal person I get to hang out with is Hannes Andersson, CEO at oeksound. And we’re going to talk a little bit about how they build a globally recognized brand in this audio plug-in space that they operate in, take a little bit of a dive into their journey and their expansion and challenges, opportunities that they encountered along the way. So, Hannes, thank you so much for doing this, man. Really, really excited to hang out for a few minutes with you here today.

Hannes Andersson (00:49)

Thank you for having me.

Jesse Paliotto (00:52)

Hannes, maybe a good place to start. Could you give folks a little bit of context? Can you briefly describe what oeksound does, especially for people who may not have any exposure to the audio industry?

Hannes Andersson (01:04)

Yeah, sure. So oeksound is a software company and it’s a software company active within the music and audio space. When it comes to tools that we use when mixing, recording, producing music or then editing audio in post-production for a film or maybe even something like a podcast, a podcast like this. So we have a few

Jesse Paliotto (01:30)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (01:33)

plugins is what we’re calling them. We call them plugins because they work within these larger software packages that exist, production programs like Pro Tools, Steinberg Cubase, Ableton Live, Logic, and even GarageBand that we can find on any Mac computer. So these plugins are these smaller tools that you use inside of software

Jesse Paliotto (01:57)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (02:03)

packages that you can use them to manipulate or enhance or just better your audio.

Jesse Paliotto (02:12)

And you guys have three plugins or maybe you can just give a quick sketch of what oeksound offers. I think you’ve got a few and maybe a new one. Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (02:22)

Yeah, so right now we have three studio plugins. So what we mean by studio is that they’re used in more of a studio setting, maybe be this bedroom producer or a lone pod podcaster or maybe a big commercial studio where they make music. So we have three plugins called Soothe or Soothe 2 is the current version of that. And we have Spiff and then we have Bloom.

And then on the live side, we also have a live version of Soothe 2, which is kind of Soothe 2 quickly became our kind of most popular plugin and that was the product that really took off for us. so one and a half year ago, we released it for live use. That meaning that it’s also now being run on shows on, for example, huge…

for huge artists like Harry Styles or Red Hot Chili Peppers and those kind of artists. So it’s also being used in that kind of setting.

Jesse Paliotto (03:24)

wow.

that’s amazing.

Yeah. In terms of how you sell them, are they standalone or is there a subscription side to it? And I ask because for folks that listen to the Grow Stage podcast, a lot of what we end up talking about is sort SaaS businesses where they’re kind of building subscription model. But I think you might have a few options there. Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (03:50)

Exactly. Yeah. So oeksound is actually pretty much a very, very traditional e-commerce business. And so we sell perpetual licenses and that are perpetual. I mean, those are every individual product is bought individually. Currently we don’t have a bundle of any sort. And that’s how we’ve been doing it for…

a while now and that’s how the plugin industry has been working for most of the time. Subscriptions are mostly, you find subscriptions mostly when it comes to larger companies that might have 30 to 200 products out there and so there’s a large selection and for somebody that doesn’t know where to start they might just like jump on a subscription and then start using the tools that they need.

But otherwise, have our products, our studio products, our perpetual licenses range between $149 and $199. But a new thing that we did last year during summer was actually launch our rent to own pricing, rent to own way of purchasing our products. And that’s a very, very popular way.

Jesse Paliotto (05:00)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (05:13)

or it’s been for us very, very popular. And I don’t see a lot of other companies doing it. There’s some availability on a website called Splice where you can rent your own products. And essentially what that means is that it’s kind of a payment plan, but you never commit to pay the full sum. And so you can just rent the plugin, but one month at a time making a payment. And after

Jesse Paliotto (05:35)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (05:42)

I think in our case after 18 months, then you get your perpetual license and then you own it for the rest for perpetually after that. And I think that really helped us grow from from kind of more globally to countries where, for example, two hundred dollars is a lot and you might not actually need the plugin.

every month, you might not just need it for an album that you’re doing this month or next month and so then you rent it for two months and then the next time you rent it for two months and then after let’s say multiple years you get a perpetual license when you’ve gone through that 18 times.

Jesse Paliotto (06:28)

That’s amazing. Like what a very thoughtful sort of win-win scenario for people using it, like you said, where they get to use it when they need it. But as a company, you get the full kind of value that you need out of the purchase eventually. Like it’s timed out. I know, you know, there’s companies that

provide sort of this payment plan option. know, Klarna does this, Affirm does this, and buy now, pay later is the phrase that is often used in the industry for that. But that comes with, you know, finance charges and you’re committing to the full purchase up front. So it’s very interesting. So like when you guys are doing this, is it the same price? Like if it’s a $200 plug-in?

and I do the payment plan, does it become a $250 purchase at end of the day or you’re just, you’re kind of covering that financing cost yourselves.

Hannes Andersson (07:20)

We’re covering that finance cost ourselves to the most part. The end sum gets for the customer, the end sum might be somewhere like $5 more, $5, $7 more. So it’s pretty close to the original sum. so we just made sure that at least at the rental price, you don’t get it cheaper than for the full price.

Jesse Paliotto (07:32)

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (07:46)

But then again,

we wanted it to be as close as possible to the full price. And that has a lot to do with how kind of our ethos work with our plugins. We are very confident in how good our plugins are and that they’re useful and that users find them useful. And also if they don’t find them useful, then I don’t see any need for…

our users to buy them and just like having that as the ground rule, make something useful and sell it. And if it’s not useful, then we’re going to know about it. so for example, yeah, go ahead.

Jesse Paliotto (08:18)

Mm-hmm.

It’s funny how like

that can sound almost like obvious when you say it out loud, but unfortunately there are things I’m sure all of us have bought that you’re like, why did I buy this? This sucks. Like this was not worthwhile. It didn’t actually do what I thought it was going to do. So it feels, I know what you’re saying sounds like this should be obvious, but it actually is like to hold yourself to the standard that we’re going to sell something that’s so good that somebody is glad that they paid us for it. Like that’s a pretty, pretty cool standard to be living up to.

Hannes Andersson (08:58)

Yeah, it’s pretty interesting because you see a lot of kind of race to the bottom pricing wise in the industry going on right now. And that kind of, I feel a bit unsure about what that communicates about the company behind the pricing. When for example, you see something like a bundle costing something like $899 and then it’s like

Jesse Paliotto (09:04)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (09:27)

crossed over and now you get it for $40 or something. When I see that and I’m am I supposed to am I like supposed to be happy when I see that I’m not like yes that is a good deal but why would anyone buy that for $899 to begin with then either either your your products were never that valuable or they were actually never that useful they were never actually that worth it.

Jesse Paliotto (09:31)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (09:57)

or then you’ve kind of like, I don’t know, there’s might be some other. Yeah, yeah. And so kind of having all of that. And I think also something we started off with our plugins and with our products is that they all have 20 day trials and these 20 day trials are just, they’re not restricted in any other way that they’re gonna stop working at after 20.

Jesse Paliotto (10:02)

Or they were, and why are you marking it down to $40?

Hannes Andersson (10:27)

days. So you get all the features that the plugin has and you can use that plugin. So for example, if you’re a professional mixing engineer, you can actually use the trial to make money during the trial so that you can then invest and get the plugin if you like it. And so having that honest, extremely transparent and honest discussion with the users of here is the plugin, you can use it for three weeks.

Jesse Paliotto (10:40)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (10:55)

decide if you like it or not if you find it useful You can tell us you can let us know if you don’t understand it if you do understand it because we are all at different levels When it comes to users where you can be a super pro user and still don’t understand how it works So you can be a bedroom producer just starting off and getting exact getting immediately what it does. There’s so many different users available, but one thing that I like always to kind of

repeat is that our customers are not stupid. They’re never stupid in any way. We don’t have to ever tell anyone why they should kind of buy our plugin, but we could tell them why they should try it. I mean, and then every single user is going to make a purchase decision on their own. We’re never going to have to tell anyone. And we’re never actually in our marketing. We’ve never asked anyone to buy our product.

Jesse Paliotto (11:46)

Really? We should try it, right?

Hannes Andersson (11:48)

Yeah, I don’t think we,

I don’t actually think we’ve ever used the word by now or something like that as a call to something, something like that. I think we’ve, of course, when we have a sale, we direct people like we have two sales a year. And so usually Black Friday and then a spring sale around spring. That’s usually how we do it.

Jesse Paliotto (11:54)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (12:14)

We never know like how we’re gonna change it up or if we’re gonna do something different, but that’s been kind of the way we’ve done it so far. We let people know, people that are on our mailing list two weeks before that we’re gonna have a sale. So if anybody’s been waiting around, that’s usually the only reason why they’re on our mailing list is to know if we have any new product or run there’s a sale. So, and then we tell everybody beforehand and then they…

take care of telling everyone else like word of mouth is everything in this industry. It’s like 95 % of the marketing is done word of mouth. And after that, they just kind of that’s like the only time where we say, okay, here’s the link where you can buy the plugin for this price now. And so you can kind of like that’s because it’s a sale. Of course, it’s now it’s about now it’s about buying it, but that’s something we do.

Jesse Paliotto (13:05)

Yeah, yeah.

Hannes Andersson (13:08)

twice a year and then we’re back to our normal programming.

Jesse Paliotto (13:12)

That’s, love that in terms of like leading with value, like we’re gonna just give you value. And for folks listening who may not have kind of ever worked in sort of the creative side of software, my exposure is that limiting the ability to export final products was always like the trick to get you to, try the creatives, whether it’s photo or drawing or music. And then when you finally create something and you wanna export it, now we’re gonna use that as the hook to force you to pay us money. Like, you actually want that track exported.

And so to actually give them full use is a big deal, but it does lead with value. it, it strikes me that, it, it creates, it builds it into a workflow, which is very important. I would expect for this user base is that they’re creating things. And so the ability to create tool chains of software that work. And if it works, then you’re built in going forward. And now I want to buy it because I have a proven workflow that created a great thing. Is that, is that a fair analysis or.

Hannes Andersson (14:09)

Yeah,

exactly. So a really good example is we talk about something like vocal chains or master chains when we talk about these tracks, these audio tracks that we have in our software. So vocal track is obviously a track where you have your recorded vocal and then you put these plugins on in order to make that plugin, that vocal sound professional and make it sound ready, ready for the radio or ready for the streaming service where you’re going to put it.

And so there we have our plugins, but also plugins from probably 20 other different companies. so they’re constantly changing out these tools that they have there to get to a better result than earlier. Every single engineer is constantly tweaking and constantly changing out things there. And so when they trial our product, our plugin,

Jesse Paliotto (14:48)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (15:05)

put it there, maybe at the end of the chain or maybe at the start of the chain. And then they understand or they kind of like, yeah, get to the point where it’s like, this is actually better than before. And then after a while, let’s say after three weeks, they open up a project where they have used it. And then that’s when they’re going to notice that, okay, whoa, my trial has expired here. And then that purchase decision is going to feel so natural. It’s going to…

Jesse Paliotto (15:18)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (15:35)

feel like a no-brainer for them at that point because, I’ve already used it on like two, three tracks and I know I’m going to use it again. This is an obvious purchase decision. And that purchase decision, especially if it’s done at full price, for example, which is not common in the plugin industry that you like ever buy something at full price, but our plugins do sell a lot at full price. What I find or what I believe

is that you get a user that is so proud of their purchase. They feel like they have made an investment because it’s already in their workflow, so to say. It’s already part of their toolbox and they’re really happy about the decision that, okay, I’m actually know that I’m going to need it. And then when you have that kind of a user, that kind of a customer,

Jesse Paliotto (16:11)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (16:34)

they’re going to tell everyone. So again, word of mouth, again, we have the perfect customer. And again, if you compare that to somebody that sees an email that says flash sale today only, and then there’s usually a timer that says like 72 hours. I don’t know how that’s today only. then maybe, maybe. then

Jesse Paliotto (16:36)

Yeah.

I don’t know, multiple time zones? No, I don’t know.

Hannes Andersson (17:04)

they buy it during that flash sale, they’ve never seen that plugin before, they use it once in their project, don’t understand it, don’t understand the value. It might be a super product, it might be great, but they just don’t put it on the right place or don’t use it right. And then they feel bad about the plugin. And so next time they’re in a room with other engineers or they’re hanging out with other music creators,

Jesse Paliotto (17:14)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (17:32)

somebody goes, hey, have you tried that plugin? And they’re gonna go, yeah, I tried it. I actually bought it. I know it, we use it. Yeah. And compare that to, oh, so do you use Soothe? It’s like, yeah, I use Soothe. I actually bought it like a few months ago. It’s on every track. Love it. Recommend it to everyone. Like that’s the difference. You have two completely different customers, but…

Jesse Paliotto (17:40)

Yeah, you’re get negative word of mouth because the experience was so bad with it.

Hannes Andersson (18:00)

I think the other plugin probably also deserves a chance. It’s just that that funnel has become so like, kind of like FOMO based that you just try and grab, yeah, it feels more like a money grab. And then if you like it or not, that’s up to you as the user. You’re not giving them a chance to even like question you.

Jesse Paliotto (18:04)

Right.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of sort of the age old wisdom that people value what they pay for and they don’t value stuff that’s free. Like, which is, you know, I remember hearing that as a kid, like I could give you this, but you’re you’re just going to throw it away. If you’ve got to save up your money and buy it, you know, what’s bike or something like, then you’re going to you’re going to be super proud of it and you’re going to you’re going to show it off. There’s almost like a a personal investment, which the other thing that was striking me while you were kind of describing that is the picture in my mind a little bit is of like

somebody who builds things with their hands, like they’re building furniture or something, and they have all these tools. And a big part of those tools and what they choose to buy is their ability to successfully use it. And so kind of, it’s not just, bought this thing as a status symbol. Like, no, I bought it because I actually have to learn how to use this thing to make cool stuff at the end of the day. And so you’re kind of building the learning pattern too at the same time, which kind of stands out to me.

Hannes Andersson (19:18)

Yeah, exactly. And we’re trying to make that as easy as possible. So both Soothe2 and Spiff, they have both integrated tutorials. So what that means is kind of like, this is something you might see in SaaS websites, right? So you have like the pop-up screens that you show, and then you might have a test project going on and stuff like that. That’s not something you

see within a plugin within a DAW. That’s something very unique, but we have that going on. And so you can open up a small tutorial that is going to go through the parameters for you. And then you also have some test audio material running through the plugin that you’ve installed together with the plugin. So kind of like you have some demo material in a way. I mean, yeah. So that way you kind of, you don’t need to,

Jesse Paliotto (20:09)

Yeah, to kind of get you started. Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (20:15)

read the manual, you don’t need to go to YouTube and watch some videos and get stuck in a rabbit hole on YouTube. You can just stay within your DAW, within your project, go through that tutorial and when you’re done, you’re back where you started and you’re still in your own project and you’re still using our plugins on your music. And so that’s something very unique in the plugin space, even though that’s something we pretty much took from, again, yeah, something more like the SaaS side.

Jesse Paliotto (20:40)

Yeah,

yeah. The just to quickly ask you said something a couple paragraphs ago that was interesting. How many you said there might be 20 pieces of plugins or software on a given track that you’re working on. Is that the right number? I’m curious. Like if I’m a music producer and I realize this is a hard question because there’s everyone from bedroom producers to professional, you know, working on, you know, Taylor Swift level kind of producers. But how many?

How many plugins or pieces of software are on a given song or album?

Hannes Andersson (21:15)

Yeah, I think if we start from the track level, I think Pro Tools, like the default number of inputs or kind of like plugin inputs you can have there is like five plus five, so 10. So usually if that audio track is well recorded material and you’re not in a genre where you have very

Jesse Paliotto (21:33)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (21:45)

over-processed material, then you’re going to be fine with an EQ, an equalizer. That might be the only thing you have there. Another thing is usually you go for something like EQ compression and maybe saturation or distortion, and then you have like three. But I’d say kind of like when you go for, when you have those more, let’s say,

Jesse Paliotto (21:51)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (22:10)

music tracks, the instruments and those tracks you might have somewhere between like one and five plugins. And then when you have your most important tracks, like a lead vocal, for example, like the main vocal that everybody is listening to, then we’re probably up. If it’s a, and if we say the genre is pop or EDM, then you’re definitely going to have like seven, eight plugins on that.

Jesse Paliotto (22:15)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (22:37)

And also that track being sent to some buses that also had the reverbs and the delays and everything like that. So there you have five, maybe some parallel tracks as well. So there you have five plugins.

Jesse Paliotto (22:49)

So I’m giving song,

this is all multiplied, right? So there was the five on the one and the five on the other and the seven on the vocal.

Hannes Andersson (22:52)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, so in a, so in a, in a production project where the producer has produced a track, you’re definitely going to find, let’s say, I don’t know, 80 plugins and on a track, on a pop track. then that all already gets like committed. And so you kind of like print the tracks as they are. And that goes to mixing and the mixing engineer adds 40 plugins more. And so this is the way, this is just the way we manipulate, manipulate audio.

If we are not editing it, so like just cutting and pasting and copying and doing stuff like that, doing our fade ins and fade outs, the other way we process our audio is with plugins. And so that’s kind of the main way that we go about. And so yeah, we can have anywhere from like 20 plugins to 200, depending on the project. And don’t get me started on cinematic projects like for film, for cinema, because those projects might have…

Jesse Paliotto (23:48)

yeah.

Hannes Andersson (23:51)

If it’s for a whole feature film, you might have 2,000 tracks.

Jesse Paliotto (23:56)

mind-boggling. So let me use this as sort of a I’m gonna use that as a turn into a little bit different sort of question. So obviously a lot of competition in this industry right like there’s a lot of plugins out there it’s not like you know there’s you know five main ones that’s what everybody use I mean maybe there are five popular ones but there’s a lot out there. And I believe you guys are based in Helsinki and so how do you do how did the company and how did it think about going global?

Hannes Andersson (23:57)

Yeah.

Yes.

Jesse Paliotto (24:25)

Because if I’m creating software, I’m in Helsinki and I want to suddenly take this to the world, there’s a lot of other plugins that people can pick from. How did you get started and how did you do that? I know that’s a very broad question, so please feel free to take that wherever you want to take that.

Hannes Andersson (24:38)

Mm.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can start really shortly talk about the history. So the company was founded by Olli Keskinen. So he’s a dear friend of mine. were both studying at the Sibelius Academy. We were studying music technology. So we were both becoming recording engineers, mixing engineers in that sense, or was at least dabbling in that. And yeah, got to do that a lot.

Jesse Paliotto (24:46)

Yeah.

right on.

Hannes Andersson (25:10)

Oli made the first version of Soothe pretty much on his own. Like that’s a solo project. And not only did he made the plugin, but he also made the website. He made the web store. that was like a WordPress, WooCommerce based store back then. And he also made the copy protection for the plugin back then. And that’s both now both the store of course is FastSpring now and then the

Jesse Paliotto (25:27)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (25:40)

Copy protection is also done by another company that we then, or we implement their technology into our plugins. But yeah, that was all made by one person in November, 2016. And then we’re not in the plugin industry or in the, guess, in the software e-commerce side, you’re not thinking about going global. Anything is by different, by like start by default, it is global. And so he…

Jesse Paliotto (26:05)

Yeah. Yep.

Hannes Andersson (26:10)

started the web store and he loaded up the plugin and then he just wrote something on one of the more popular forums in the audio space and said that, hey, I made a plugin. I hope you like it. Here you can buy it and here you can download and try it. And then it took off from there pretty fast for a single plugin done by a single person. And so pretty quickly he understood that he should be focusing on

Jesse Paliotto (26:27)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (26:39)

squashing the bugs and making sure that the code is good. And so I jumped on the business side, on the marketing side, or mainly focusing on marketing, getting more people to know about it. And Tommi Gröhn as well jumped on as another DSP engineer is what we call it. So digital signal processing. that’s, those are kind of like where all the code starts. It’s the algorithms that do the processing for the audio. And so we became kind of like the core

Jesse Paliotto (26:50)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (27:07)

team and now we are now the partners of oeksound but that’s where I mean my how it started for me was actually just cold emailing reaching out to Grammy winning engineers and a lot of them answer I mean they’re not I mean engineers are not that kind of they’re not that secluded and they’re not there a lot a of them like when people reach out to them and

Jesse Paliotto (27:23)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (27:34)

especially like when somebody has a plugin that they haven’t tried before because we’re all geeking out about plugins. so, in a way, that just kind of shows that we were all musicians, recording engineers, mixing engineers, and just kind of had, we were all users of this plugin as well. So reaching out and just getting to geek out with other people about the plugins that we have was the best kind of marketing, again, word of mouth, getting the word out there.

Jesse Paliotto (27:37)

Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (28:02)

was the way I went about it. And then at some point we released Spiff our second plugin in 2018, grew the company to up to about six, seven people. And then Soothe 2 we released in 2020 before COVID really hit. So that kind of like, there was a lot of things happening there. Obviously COVID was good for software, COVID was good for music in general. When it comes to the business side,

Jesse Paliotto (28:22)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (28:32)

horrible event, all in all, but just…

Jesse Paliotto (28:34)

Yeah, but yeah, so many people had to invest in tools and so many people were making music at home because they couldn’t go play the gigs.

Hannes Andersson (28:38)

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They were making music at home. They couldn’t go to a commercial studio and so they were recording in their bedrooms and something that Soothe, for example, was pretty much made for was to make cheaper microphones sound more expensive, cheap rooms sound more professional and all of that. it kind of got released and came out into the world at the perfect time.

Jesse Paliotto (28:56)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (29:07)

in that sense. so Soothe two was for us, the plugin or the product that really, really took off and put us on the map. And after that, it’s been crazy. Everything changed after January, 2020. And that’s when we also understood that we need a better partner on the, on the e-commerce side and not maybe like trying to do all the e-commerce our side ourselves with the, with taxes and, and everything. And so that’s when

we started to look for other partners there and found FastSpring.

Jesse Paliotto (29:44)

Was there any particular headaches that you ran into or was it just you could see that it would help in the future or was there specific pain points where selling like the popularity that surged? Did it create kind of growing pains or?

Hannes Andersson (29:58)

Yeah, definitely created growing pains. think bookkeeping was, for example, just keeping books clean on like the different countries and having that going on correctly. It’s just having pretty much… We couldn’t focus as much on the marketing side when there’s a lot of like technical things that you need to take into account and bureaucracy and…

Jesse Paliotto (30:24)

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (30:27)

legal matters and stuff like that. so it was just like we’re a small company of and especially back and back then we were a small company where most of the founders of the partner was pretty young and like I haven’t worked at another company in my life. This is my kind of first company. And so in a way it’s not like we could have we had like a

Jesse Paliotto (30:47)

Mm-hmm. All right, on.

Hannes Andersson (30:55)

consultants or a CEO that have started like four different companies before and say like, yeah, this is just how you do it. I mean, and we never were a startup either. And so we’ve never thought like a startup. We’ve never had the kind of like the way of thinking. And so we were always just like this artisan, plugging company making these tools. And so I think…

Jesse Paliotto (31:15)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (31:24)

What I remember now, it’s all a bit fuzzy just because of how fast everything happened. I think it’s just we needed to be able to handle scale and needed to be able for customer support as well to be able to handle orders correctly and fast and something that also would work with our licensing system because

Jesse Paliotto (31:30)

Yeah, I’m sure. Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (31:53)

because oeksound and our licenses are handled by a third party in a way, and then fast spring. So there’s always this kind of like Trinity of actors when somebody buys a plugin or license to use our plugins. They buy it from us, they get a license, an activation code that they activate with pace with ILOCK is called. And then…

Jesse Paliotto (31:54)

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Hannes Andersson (32:19)

that’s what they receive when they’ve made the transaction over fast spring to us. And so, yeah, there’s always that going on. it’s a bit of a complicated system, but again, it’s perpetual licenses. So it’s one transaction for most and then rent to own, of course, then makes it again, a bit more complicated.

Jesse Paliotto (32:24)

Yeah.

Yeah, but I can imagine there’s, start making decisions like am I putting my developer time into solving that triangle of software integration or my building the next, you know, soothe or improving the next feature or whatever. And so, it sounds like a bit of it is sort of just optimizing what do we spend our time on versus what do we outsource to, you know, a partner who can potentially or hopefully solve it for us.

Hannes Andersson (33:05)

Exactly. Yeah. And to not have to worry about some percentages being off when it comes to VAT or something like that and not having to keep track of it that often at least. I’d say as well, most of our, the sales we do is kind of B2C. mean, there’s a customer, but that customer is often as like,

Jesse Paliotto (33:20)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (33:35)

solo owned business. And so it feels like B2C for most parts, but it might be that it’s B2B. And that’s why always like, it’s like a lot of customers that’s always going to write off the VAT. There might have a code for VAT in Europe or then some other company ID for tax purposes. And then

Jesse Paliotto (33:37)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (33:58)

there are also B2B customers. So large companies like game companies or movie companies that are actual businesses that want to buy in larger volumes, for example. And so that’s something we’ve noticed with FastSpring that it doesn’t matter. There’s going to be a possibility. have the tools through FastSpring to offer what the customer wants and also to keep that.

Jesse Paliotto (34:12)

All right.

Hannes Andersson (34:25)

funnel as clean as possible. That’s always been super, super important for us is that we’re not using an account. We don’t have accounts. We don’t have oeksound accounts for our users, which is pretty unique as well. Usually for a lot of software companies, you need to log into your account in order to make a purchase and something like that. We thought since you’ve already trialing our product and you don’t have an account for trialing our product as well. And so.

Jesse Paliotto (34:36)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right.

Hannes Andersson (34:54)

when you make the purchase decision, we’re trying to be by all means not be in the way for you to make a purchase. So kind of like when you’re going through the purchase funnel, get out of the way. You as a company need to get out of the way and you need to just make it as easy as possible for a customer, for a business, for to make a purchase, to make a volume purchase, to make a…

Jesse Paliotto (35:02)

Right.

Right.

Hannes Andersson (35:21)

purchase with VAT code to be able to add your address or whatever you need there. And it should just be so seamless and like simple so that that happens without doubt. It feels like because we’ve been super transparent up until that point. So we’re not going to ask you to to kind of like, you want to buy our plugin? Well, first log in and so you can see

Jesse Paliotto (35:24)

Yeah.

Right.

Hannes Andersson (35:50)

what kind of coupons you have in your account. No, no account, no coupons. The price you see is the same price for everyone. You don’t need to worry that somebody else gets a better deal. And you just go through it and then you have it and then you get on with your life and you get to mix more music.

Jesse Paliotto (36:00)

Yeah, right.

I love it. I can’t tell you how many times I have stopped because you go to buy or to do a trial and you’re in it and like, oh, quickly set up your account. I’m like, I don’t got time for this. And I’m, I’m in my head. wondering, like, if I set up the account, are you going to remember what I was purchasing? Is the cart going to stay permanent through my exchange or might have to start back over on the homepage? Like forget it. And I just move on. Like that’s so smart. Like reduce as much friction and just allow the purchase.

Hannes Andersson (36:23)

Yeah.

Yeah. And if you, and

also all of that, like if you sign off, sign up to our newsletter, you get a 10 % coupon and it’s like, so there’s coupons involved as well. Well, is there a 20 % coupon somewhere? And then I go to Google and then I try to Google out like, okay, where can I get a 20 % coupon? And, and stuff like that. It’s just like, it makes it such a gray area and it doesn’t feel, it doesn’t feel right. It doesn’t feel like you’re treating the customer correctly because it’s

Jesse Paliotto (36:39)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (37:00)

Yeah, just… Yeah, I think it’s good.

Jesse Paliotto (37:02)

It’s interesting.

I don’t hear people talk about that a lot, and it may just be me missing it, but like it’s very popular with retail sites, right? Like clothing stores or something where, you know, send it for email and you get the pop-up, you know, get 10 % today signing up. And what you’re introducing is cognitive load to somebody who’s in a purchase funnel.

And it’s not like typically in the digital world, we tend to think in terms of there’s more clicks and that’s friction or creating the log in is friction. Cause you have to think of a pattern, but just the question I asked myself of wait, am I getting the best deal? That’s friction. And so, yeah, you’re reducing sort of that whole kind of internal slowdown.

Hannes Andersson (37:31)

Mm.

Yeah,

yeah, and that’s actually funny that you mentioned that because you can actually trace that back to the way we develop our plugins. So plugins pop up when you make your music, they pop up in a separate window in front of your track, and then you adjust your parameters and then you close the window. Now, for many sites and for many, let’s say,

Jesse Paliotto (37:52)

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (38:08)

let’s say content on social media, they kind of count how long the user has spent with that content and that’s positive. I mean, the more time they’re on a site, the better or something like that.

Jesse Paliotto (38:22)

Yeah, that’s quote

unquote engagement and that’s what everybody wants in order. Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (38:26)

Yeah, but that’s completely the opposite for a good plugin, right? When you know how a plugin works and you’re mixing music, you want to get to an end result fast. shorter while you have open our plugin and it stays on, it’s not in a bypass state after you close it. So it stays on. So if you open a plugin, you spend, let’s average seven seconds, like looking at it.

Jesse Paliotto (38:47)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (38:56)

And then you close it. That’s good. Like that’s amazing. If you spend a little time on it. And I think the same way you think about, okay, now I’ve used the plugin and now I want to purchase it again, the shorter time it takes for that person to make that person to make that purchase for better. Right. Because they’re wanting to get back to mixing music, right? They don’t want to spend time in their browser. They don’t want to start questioning. Like if they’re getting the best.

best deal possible they want to get back to making music

Jesse Paliotto (39:27)

Yeah, especially

if they’re going to have 200 plugins they’re using on this track. Like I don’t want to do this 200 times.

Hannes Andersson (39:31)

Yeah.

No, this is just a plugin exactly. This is not like, we’re not changing the world here with what we’re doing. We make kind of like really flashy toys in a sense, but they’re super good tools.

Jesse Paliotto (39:47)

The that that reverse metric on engagement is funny. It takes me back to the analogy of like somebody building something with like physical tools like the tool that I like the most is the one that if you tell me, Jesse, here’s this tool for building stuff with wood. And every time you use it, it takes an hour to set it up and it takes an hour to clean it. You guess what? I’m never going to use that tool. The one that like does it fast and I can just keep building. I’m going to use that every time. It’s interesting sort of reverse metric from a lot of marketing funnels where yeah, engagement is the.

the currency.

Hannes Andersson (40:17)

Yeah,

of course that’s different if the tool is the thing you’re doing. I mean, if I’m sitting down and I decide that today I’m gonna explore plugins, then of course I will spend time with plugins because I’m not working on a track, I don’t have a client waiting for me to send over a finished version. I’m not getting paid by the hour when I do that. And so in that sense, it makes sense. I mean, if you buy a golf club,

Jesse Paliotto (40:24)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Hannes Andersson (40:47)

the more time you spend using that golf club, the better, of course. But because that is the hobby, that is the thing you’re doing. And that’s the same thing with an instrument then as well. I mean, if I buy an instrument, the more time I spend using that instrument, the better probably it was for me. It was a good purchase. But for a tool that’s there to kind of like get to the end result, it should not be in the way. It should just do its job and get out of the way.

Jesse Paliotto (40:50)

Yeah, true. Yeah, really good point.

Yeah.

You

Yeah, it really you have to understand the user journey or the user story. And maybe can you talk for a second? Before we started, we kind of talked for a second around the idea that you guys are your own audience. Can you just go back to that like about how you guys use your own stuff?

Hannes Andersson (41:32)

Yeah.

Yeah, and so I think actually I think I actually bought Soothe before I started working for all with Olli, which is really funny because I needed it. I needed it like it was a good tool and I needed it for my own music or for the music I was making for artists. And so that really shows kind of where where the core is at the company. I think everyone

dabbles in music in some form at oeksound, be it in recording or mixing when it to engineering or then producing music, playing music or then DJing or yeah, being, having something to do with music. And so a lot of us use our tools at least at a weekly basis, use our own plugins and we also use all the competitor, let’s say competitors plugins, even though we don’t.

Jesse Paliotto (42:18)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (42:34)

like to think of them as competitors, or they’re just other plugin companies whose tools we like. And then, so that’s always present when developing a product. Everything we do starts in product development. All marketing starts in product development. All kind of ethos starts in, it’s not a separate thing in any way. When we start thinking about a plugin, a new plugin, or an upgrade to a plugin,

Jesse Paliotto (42:56)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (43:03)

everybody’s involved. Everybody’s involved in what is it, what it’s going to be, what is it going to do, who is it for, and because it should be for us, like mainly. The plugins we do, we do for ourselves. We do take a lot of feedback. We do test it with users, have user testing and have alpha tests and beta tests and everything like that. But if we don’t like the plugin when we’re done, we’re not releasing it.

Jesse Paliotto (43:30)

Yeah.

Hannes Andersson (43:30)

I

mean, even though everybody else would say that it’s amazing, we still need to understand it ourselves because it’s really difficult to market something that you don’t understand.

Jesse Paliotto (43:41)

Yeah, that’s such a superpower to be the audience. I can imagine there’s maybe complications there, but you know, especially like in the B2B SaaS world, I think that can often be a problem where people aren’t using the product in their day-to-day lives. Especially if that’s not there, you know, if you’re selling whatever, you know, in my world, it would be sort of marketing tech. But if you’re, if you’re somebody who’s not marketing and it’s a B2B software, it’s very hard to figure out like.

Hannes Andersson (43:52)

Hmm.

Jesse Paliotto (44:06)

what are people actually doing, but there’s such an intuitive knowledge, I would guess, and kind of the oeksound team, where you guys like, no, this is how a producer uses it, because I just did that yesterday, and this was the problem I had.

Hannes Andersson (44:15)

Yeah,

exactly. Yeah. It’s so, and that’s, I love having those conversations with users where I can, I can just go up and ask like, Hey, so what do you do? Are you an artist or a producer or you’re an engineer? And then we talk about it. They tell them where they come, where they’re coming from, what kind of music they make, how they like to work and what their workflow workflow is. And then I can just immediately be like, that’s great. I do that. I do that as well.

That’s something new for me. Do you mind telling me more about that? this is where I see our plugins come in. Like when you do that, you might want to try this there or this there. And then just kind of like putting our plugins into the context of what they’re already working with instead of being like, this is going to fix all your problems in your life. And without having even listened to them to begin with about what their problems are.

Jesse Paliotto (44:56)

Yeah.

Yeah, talk about over promising. That’s going to be very hard to follow up with actual delivery. Well, Hannes, this has been so good. Thank you so much for joining today. I’ve I’ve so enjoyed this conversation. It’s very interesting. And I feel like there’s just kind of so many insights along the way around how you guys have structured, how you price things, how you sell things, how you develop things, how you’ve expanded.

Hannes Andersson (45:16)

No, yeah.

Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (45:38)

Before we wrap up, there any, if people wanted to connect with oeksound, what’s the best way to maybe connect with you or with the company? Just go to the website or what’s the best thing for people to do?

Hannes Andersson (45:49)

So our website is oeksound.com. That’s O-E-K-sound, all in one word, dot com. There you can find our, our plugins. If you’re making music, you can download the trials there and use them for those 20 days. And, I’m not going to tell you to buy it because I don’t do that. And and also on socials it’s oeksound — O-E-K-sound — on, on all socials. That’s, Facebook X, TikTok,

Instagram, Twitter, everything out there. And so that’s where you can follow us as well. We’re a very small company. So if you send an email to contact [at] oeksound wanting to speak with me, we’ll know about it. Or if you send a DM, if you send a DM to any one of our social channels, I will know about it. If you connect with me on LinkedIn, just Hannes Andersson there, I will know about it. And so that’s the best way to connect with me.

Jesse Paliotto (46:33)

Nice. I love that. And we’ll add those in the show notes, of course. Thank you so much, man. I’ve appreciated this today. Thanks, everyone, for joining us on the Growth Stage podcast. I’m your host, Jesse Paliotto. Love being able to hang out with you and with the best in the business here on the podcast. Really pumped to have been able to get Hannes on here and talk through kind of their journey. Have a great week, everybody, and catch you on the next one. Cheers.

Hannes Andersson (46:55)

Thank you.

The post EP30: How oeksound Took Their Audio Plugins Business Global appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> Close Sales-Assisted Deals Faster With FastSpring’s HubSpot Integration https://fastspring.com/blog/close-sales-assisted-deals-faster-with-fastsprings-hubspot-integration/ Mon, 23 Sep 2024 17:05:49 +0000 https://fastspring.com/?p=29607 Simplify the management of your products, pricing, and user accounts with FastSpring's integration with HubSpot. Sync product data, user accounts, and generate quotes directly in HubSpot, allowing your sales team to work efficiently with up-to-date information and streamline their deal processes.

The post Close Sales-Assisted Deals Faster With FastSpring’s HubSpot Integration appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> We recently announced our new HubSpot integration as a part of our improved B2B offering. Today, let’s dive deeper into the feature itself and see exactly what it offers and how it can improve your sales-assisted transactions while using FastSpring as your Merchant of Record.

If you’re interested in using the HubSpot integration with FastSpring reach out to our sales team or submit a ticket to our customer team here.

Our new integration simplifies the operational management of your products, pricing, and user accounts via automatic data transfer from our systems to and from HubSpot. This allows for a combination of FastSpring’s powerful payments and subscription management while allowing HubSpot to remain in place as your CRM.

The integration comprises of three parts: 

  • Product Sync from FastSpring to HubSpot
  • User Account Creation and Updates Sync to HubSpot
  • Quote Generation in FastSpring From Deals in HubSpot and Deal Update after the Quote is paid in FastSpring

Product Sync From FastSpring to HubSpot

Syncing products from FastSpring to HubSpot is easy once you’ve toggled on your integration. Once connected, we create an authenticated, secure token to pull over all key product data from FastSpring like product name, price, SKU and more. Your team then has the ability to create products in FastSpring and those products will automatically be pushed over to HubSpot. And, any product updates are also automatically pushed.

Why should you care?

This integration streamlines back office processes by ensuring that your sales team is always operating with the most accurate product data for the deals they’re working. This accuracy creates better revenue forecasting for deals and more clarity for your teams as they’re calculating what to offer their prospects.

User Account Creation and Updates Sync to HubSpot

In addition to syncing your products, user account information syncs automatically to HubSpot from activity in FastSpring. That means that when a user creates an account on your site through the purchase of a product or a sales deal, FastSpring automatically sends that information over to HubSpot and either creates a new user account, or updates the information in HubSpot as needed.

Why should you care?

This allows your team to quickly see what products are being used by users from within HubSpot and opens up cross-sell and upsell opportunities for your sales team.

Quote Generation in FastSpring From HubSpot Deals

Sales teams are always going to perform better when they can use the systems they’re already familiar with. Now, instead of having to use a secondary quoting system in addition to HubSpot, our new integration allows your team to automatically generate quotes in FastSpring when they create a deal in HubSpot. This works via an automatic push of data from the information created in the deal. This includes which account, product SKUs and quantity, pricing, and more. 

Why should you care?

Once a quote is generated, it is emailed to the prospect for further conversation. This not only leverages the FastSpring’s built-in product catalog and payment options, but also eliminates the need for manual quote generation and emailing resulting in faster deal processing and ultimately, contributing to a higher close rate. 

Customers can accept and pay the quote which will in turn update the HubSpot deal to reflect that it has been closed.

Close Deals Faster With FastSpring x HubSpot Today

With FastSpring’s HubSpot integration, close your sales-led opportunities faster. Plus, instantly expand your B2B SaaS business worldwide, all in one place without the headache of global sales tax and compliance. Accept the top 98% of payment methods in 185 countries, including low-cost options like ACH and SEPA and use our powerful invoicing, quoting, and payments tools in addition to your HubSpot integration.

Want to learn more about how to use FastSpring’s HubSpot integration? Let’s chat today.

The post Close Sales-Assisted Deals Faster With FastSpring’s HubSpot Integration appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> How FastSpring’s Proforma Invoice API Automates Subscription Renewals, Upgrades, and Add-Ons to Maximize Revenue https://fastspring.com/blog/how-proforma-invoice-api-automates-subscription-renewals-upgrades-and-add-ons-to-maximize-revenue/ Mon, 12 Aug 2024 19:50:36 +0000 https://fastspring.com/?p=29577 Discover how FastSpring’s Proforma Invoice API automates subscription renewals, upgrades, and add-ons, improving efficiency, accuracy, and revenue forecasting. Learn how this solution streamlines approvals, reduces errors, and enhances customer satisfaction, helping your business retain more customers and maximize revenue.

The post How FastSpring’s Proforma Invoice API Automates Subscription Renewals, Upgrades, and Add-Ons to Maximize Revenue appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> Throughout the year, sales and subscription management teams juggle hundreds or thousands of subscription upgrades, add-ons, and renewals across customer accounts. However, existing solutions for generating pricing estimates for subscription changes, securing internal approvals, and providing customers with formal documentation are overwhelmingly manual, cumbersome, and error-prone.

And with businesses tightening their belts, one misunderstanding or misstep during the upgrade or renewal process can mean the difference between a multiple-year contract and unexpected customer churn.

What if every customer renewal—from estimate to invoice—was predictable and seamless for everyone involved?

That’s the vision behind FastSpring’s Proforma Invoice API. Our proforma invoice solution fosters subscription management efficiency and transparency by automating the creation of professional, approval-ready invoices based on existing estimates from the FastSpring platform. Your customers will appreciate the clear pricing breakdowns, and your go-to-market team will love the flexibility to accommodate diverse subscription models—removing the need for manual calculations.

The result? Streamlined approval processes. Stronger customer relationships. Predictable forecasting. And increased revenue.

Solution Overview

Whether it’s a straightforward renewal, complex upgrade scenario, or mid-term adjustment, the Proforma Invoice API delivers a polished pre-invoice essential for smooth decision-making and execution.

By using FastSprings Proforma Invoice API, developers and technical sales leaders can avoid:

  • Manual calculations and errors
  • Confusion and customer frustration
  • Tedious workflows and lost productivity
  • Missed renewal opportunities and lost revenue
  • Challenges with budget planning
  • Inflexible subscription management

Instead, FastSpring’s new Proforma Invoice API empowers revenue teams to:

Forecast Accurately. Create accurate proforma invoices for subscription renewals, upgrades, downgrades, and add-ons to streamline budgeting and pre-approve costs.

Increase Renewal Rates. Provide transparent cost breakdowns to reduce customer confusion, friction, and potential delays and disputes.

Improve Efficiency. Automate proforma invoice generation, eliminate manual calculation errors, and free up staff for higher-value tasks.

Streamline Approvals. Facilitate transparent approval workflows for discounted pricing or custom terms, accelerating the subscription management process.

Simplify Complex Scenarios. Support adaptable processes and API-driven integration for diverse subscription models and billing systems.

With clarity and efficiency at its core, the Proforma Invoice API gives developers the simple tools to effectively partner with go-to-market teams and subscription managers to project costs, secure internal approvals, and communicate billing details to existing customers. 

Now, let’s see our solution in action.

Solution in Action

FastSpring built its Proforma Invoice API for developers, but the benefits are for everyone. When developers deploy the simple code, accurate forecasting and expedited renewals get exponentially easier.

When companies experience rapid growth, managing flexible subscription terms, including duration and discounts, can be challenging. Without a proper system in place, this flexibility typically means manual processes and, in turn, errors from manual data entry. Further, when companies don’t have a way to sync subscriptions and add-ons into their calculations, revenue tracking can become a nightmare—and renewals often fall through the cracks.

Let’s examine how a sales team might use the Proforma Invoice API to ensure customer flexibility and maximum revenue for the business.

Sales Representative

Meet Steph. Steph is a top-performing sales representative for Wizzle, a fictional company that has experienced rapid subscription growth over the past few years. The sales team hooked potential customers in the early days by offering flexible subscription terms, including manual renewals, deep discounts, and varied term lengths. While this helped Wizzle grow its customer base quickly, it’s made renewals nearly impossible for Steph to keep up with. 

Steph wants her customers to have flexible options, so she needs a solution to generate proforma renewal invoices with different term lengths and pricing structures, unique customer discounts or negotiated rates, and offer promotions or prorated calculations.

To start, Steph needs flexibility in renewal requirements. Customers want to know if changes will occur immediately or during the next billing cycle. Proforma Invoice API allows either.

Here, you’ll see the code for a subscription change that goes into effect during the next billing cycle. Note the simplicity in identifying the requested number of units, the price, the requested units for the add-on (and associated cost), and whether or not the new pricing is prorated for this billing cycle.

An example of how one might implement a subscription management portal using the Proforma Invoice API.

Next Billing Cycle – Request

JSON
{

    "subscription": "7oSTq-tZS9S0LoOpiPQL5w",

    "product":"Standard"

    "quantity": 5,

    "pricing": {

        "price":  {

            "USD": 10

        }

    },

    "addons": [

        {

            "product": "Support Module",

            "quantity": 5,

            "pricing": {

                "price":  {

                    "USD": 7

                }

            }

        }

    ],,

    "prorate": false

}
Expand

The code snippet is nearly identical if the new pricing is prorated. Notice that “Prorate” is false in the first snippet and true in the following code snippet.

Immediate Application – Request

JSON
{

    "subscription": "7oSTq-tZS9S0LoOpiPQL5w",

    "product":"Standard"

    "quantity": 5,

    "pricing": {

        "price":  {

            "USD": 10

        }

    },

    "addons": [

        {

            "product": "Support Module",

            "quantity": 5,

            "pricing": {

                "price":  {

                    "USD": 7

                }

            }

        }

    ],

    "prorate": true

}
Expand

When you embed this code into your existing systems, your sales team has a clean and simple experience on the front end. The sales representative simply puts the name of the subscription into FastSpring, the requested quantity, any add-ons, and whether or not the changes are prorated—and the API will automatically generate an invoice with accurate calculations.

Next Billing Cycle – Output

JSON
{

  "proFormaInvoiceHeader": {

    "proFormaInvoiceCreationDate": "2024-03-16",

    "currency": "USD",

    "timezone": "UTC",

    "message": "This invoice and the renewal amount on the next charge date are valid as long as there are no additional changes to the subscription plan from today's date until the next charge date."

  },

  "contact": [

    {

      "type": "BILL-TO",

      "email": "john.doe@cloudtech.com",

      "firstname": "John",

      "lastname": "Doe",

      "phone": "555-987-6543",

      "organization": {

        "companyId": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440002",

        "companyName": "CloudTech Solutions",

        "department": {

          "departmentId": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440003",

          "departmentName": "Finance",

          "departmentDescription": "Handles billing, invoicing, and payment processing."

        }

      },

      "address": {

        "id": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440006",

        "addressLine1": "456 Shipping Lane",

        "city": "Miami",

        "region": "FL",

        "postalCode": "33101",

        "country": "USA"

      }

    },

    {

      "type": "SHIP-TO",

      "email": "jane.smith@datametrics.com",

      "firstname": "Jane",

      "lastname": "Smith",

      "phone": "555-123-4567",

      "organization": {

        "companyId": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440004",

        "companyName": "DataMetrics Analytics",

        "department": {

          "departmentId": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440005",

          "departmentName": "Operations",

          "departmentDescription": "Manages the delivery and deployment of software services to customers."

        }

      },

      "address": {

        "id": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440007",

        "addressLine1": "456 Shipping Lane",

        "city": "Miami",

        "region": "FL",

        "postalCode": "33101",

        "country": "USA"

      },

      "taxId": "123-tax-id"

    }

  ],

  "currentPlanSummary": {

    "product": "Basic",

    "billingFrequency": "1 month",

    "price": 8.50,

    "quantity": 1,

    "nextChargeDate": "4/6/24",

    "nextChargeAmount": 7.65

  },

  "proposedPlanSummary": {

    "product": "Standard",

    "billingFrequency": "1 month",

    "price": 50.00, // $10.00 per month for 5 quantities.

    "quantity": 5,

    "nextChargeDate": "4/6/24",

    "nextChargeAmount": 85.00 // $50 for Standard + $35 for Support Module.

  },

  "items": [

    {

      "product": "Standard Subscription",

      "quantity": 5,

      "price": 10.00,

      "discount": 0.00,

      "total": 50.00,

      "proratedItemAmounts": null

    },

    {

      "product": "Support Module",

      "quantity": 5,

      "price": 7.00,

      "discount": 0.00,

      "total": 35.00,

      "proratedItemAmounts": null

    }

  ],

  "invoiceAmounts": {

    "subtotal": 85.00,

    "discount": 0.00,

    "tax": 0.00,

    "total": 85.00

  }

}
Expand

In this scenario, the sales representative wants to create an invoice showing an altered subscription quantity at the next billing cycle. Based on the sales rep’s input, the system automatically and instantly creates a proforma invoice showing the new charges.

Immediate Application – Output

JSON
{

  "proFormaInvoiceHeader": {

    "proFormaInvoiceCreationDate": "2024-03-17",

    "currency": "USD",

    "timezone": "America/New_York",

    "message": "This invoice reflects immediate changes to the subscription plan, with prorated charges applicable from the change date to the next billing cycle."

  },

  "contact": [

    {

      "type": "BILL-TO",

      "email": "john.doe@cloudtech.com",

      "firstname": "John",

      "lastname": "Doe",

      "phone": "555-987-6543",

      "organization": {

        "companyId": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440002",

        "companyName": "CloudTech Solutions",

        "department": {

          "departmentId": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440003",

          "departmentName": "Finance",

          "departmentDescription": "Handles billing, invoicing, and payment processing."

        }

      },

      "address": {

        "id": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440006",

        "addressLine1": "456 Shipping Lane",

        "city": "Miami",

        "region": "FL",

        "postalCode": "33101",

        "country": "USA"

      }

    },

    {

      "type": "SHIP-TO",

      "email": "jane.smith@datametrics.com",

      "firstname": "Jane",

      "lastname": "Smith",

      "phone": "555-123-4567",

      "organization": {

        "companyId": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440004",

        "companyName": "DataMetrics Analytics",

        "department": {

          "departmentId": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440005",

          "departmentName": "Operations",

          "departmentDescription": "Manages the delivery and deployment of software services to customers."

        }

      },

      "address": {

        "id": "550e8400-e29b-41d4-a716-446655440007",

        "addressLine1": "456 Shipping Lane",

        "city": "Miami",

        "region": "FL",

        "postalCode": "33101",

        "country": "USA"

      },

      "taxId": "123-tax-id"

    }

  ],

  "currentPlanSummary": {

    "product": "Basic",

    "billingFrequency": "1 month",

    "price": 8.50,

    "quantity": 1,

    "nextChargeDate": "4/6/24",

    "nextChargeAmount": 7.65

  },

  "proposedPlanSummary": {

    "product": "Standard",

    "billingFrequency": "1 month",

    "price": 50.00,

    "quantity": 5,

    "nextChargeDate": "4/6/24",

    "nextChargeAmount": 85.00

  },

  "items": [

    {

      "product": "Standard Subscription",

      "quantity": 5,

      "price": 10.00,

      "total": 50.00,

      "proratedItemAmounts": {

        "proratedCharge": "35.00",

        "proratedCredit": "0.00",

        "proratedTax": "0.00",

        "proratedAmount": 35.00

      }

    },

    {

      "product": "Support Module",

      "quantity": 5,

      "price": 7.00,

      "total": 35.00,

      "proratedItemAmounts": {

        "proratedCharge": "24.50",

        "proratedCredit": "0.00",

        "proratedTax": "0.00",

        "proratedAmount": 24.50

      }

    }

  ],

  "invoiceAmounts": {

    "subtotal": 85.00,

    "discount": 0.00,

    "tax": 0.00,

    "total": 59.50

  }

}
Expand

In this scenario, the sales rep wants to show the customer the same subscription change but with a prorated price for August. In both scenarios, you can see how simple it will be for the sales rep to quickly show the customer several options, ensuring flexibility and a smooth path to growth and renewal.

Conclusion

When businesses scrutinize every fee and subscription, a smooth and speedy renewal process can be all it takes to retain more customers. However, that process requires automation, accuracy, and transparency in all customer communications—especially regarding pricing for add-ons and renewals.

FastSpring’s Proforma Invoice API removes the internal hassles, potential errors, and customer frustrations inherent in the old way of managing invoices. By deploying simple lines of code in your existing backend system, you can instantly empower teams to create accurate proforma invoices for their customers. Renewals that used to take weeks or months of negotiations can now take a few days—or even a couple of hours.

There will be no more back-and-forth, miscommunications, or frustrations. With FastSpring’s Proforma Invoice API, customers are happy, and finance teams can accurately forecast and hit their numbers more consistently. What more could you ask for?

The post How FastSpring’s Proforma Invoice API Automates Subscription Renewals, Upgrades, and Add-Ons to Maximize Revenue appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> EP22: Proven A/B Test Winners for B2B CRO https://fastspring.com/blog/proven-a-b-test-winners-for-b2b-cro/ Thu, 11 Jul 2024 13:00:00 +0000 https://fastspring.com/?p=29480 Sahil Patel of Spiralyze explains special considerations for B2B CRO, winning strategies he’s found while helping major clients, and more.

The post EP22: Proven A/B Test Winners for B2B CRO appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> The most common examples of successful CRO tactics provided at many conferences tend to focus on B2C ecommerce, but what are the proven winning tactics you can use in your B2B CRO strategy?

In this episode of Growth Stage, we interview Sahil Patel of Spiralyze about his thoughts on: 

  • Special considerations for B2B CRO.
  • The best way to think about your B2B test data approach.
  • Winning strategies Sahil has found helping clients like BambooHR, Okta, and Harvest with their B2B CRO. 

If you’re scratching your head wondering what you’ll test next with your B2B CRO strategy, don’t miss this episode!

Jump to video.  |  Jump to transcript.

Podcast Full Interview: Audio

Listen on Apple Podcasts
Listen on Spotify

Listen online or find it on more podcast services.

Podcast Full Interview: Video

Transcript

David Vogelpohl (00:04)

Hello everyone and welcome to the Growth Stage podcast by FastSpring, where we discuss how digital product companies can grow revenue, build meaningful products, and increase the value of their business. I’m your host, David Vogelpohl. I support the digital product community here in my role at FastSpring. And I love to bring the best of the community to you here on Growth Stage. In this episode, we’re talking about a topic that I’m really excited about: proven AB testing winners for B2B CRO, and joining us for that conversation is Mr. Sahil Patel. Sahil, welcome to Fast — I’m sorry, welcome to Growth Stage.

Sahil Patel (00:42)

David, really glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

David Vogelpohl (00:45)

Excellent. Well, thanks for bearing with me while I stumbled over your name there a little bit in the beginning; with a last name like Vogelpohl I should be better at that. But thank you for joining. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And so for those watching and listening, what I wanted to share with you is kind of what we’re going to talk about today, which is Sahil’s thoughts on the special considerations for B2B CRO (what’s different about B2B versus B2C),

Sahil Patel (00:54)

Hey, we’re here. It’s good.

David Vogelpohl (01:12)

the best way to think about your testing data when you’re doing B2B CRO, and winning strategies Sahil has seen with clients like Bamboo, Okta, and Harvest. And so those are some really meaty B2B puzzles, Sahil. And so I’m really curious about what you’ve seen there. So I’m going to kick it off by asking you the first question I’ve asked every guest, which is, what is the first thing you bought online?

Sahil Patel (01:41)

What a great question. I’m gonna age myself a little bit. Probably it was in the 90s.

Buying stuff was not super common…

It probably was some kind of Star Wars related collectible on eBay.

David Vogelpohl (02:04)

Nice, do you still collect Star Wars collectibles?

Sahil Patel (02:08)

I do, yeah, but I have a decent amount. So there’s like a household cap on adding new Star Wars stuff.

David Vogelpohl (02:16)

I like it. I like it. Is it like one in one out the kind of thing at this point or have you hit the cap?

Sahil Patel (02:21)

Well, it’s pretty close. My kids are into it now, which gives me a little bit of leeway, which means I can get things that are for them, but aren’t really for me.

David Vogelpohl (02:32)

Nice, nice. I like it. Well, that’s a great first thing you bought online story. Thanks for sharing.

Sahil Patel (02:37)

What about you, David? What was the first thing you bought online?

David Vogelpohl (02:39)

The first thing I bought online was a product called Zanfel. It was designed, it is still sold today, but it’s a poison ivy cure. So I was at the end of like a three or four day stint of just being miserable with poison ivy. And I Googled a cure for poison ivy. Zanfel came up and it actually did work for me. It doesn’t necessarily work for everybody, but it was like a magic cure for me. So, late nineties. So yeah.

Sahil Patel (03:03)

And when was this? How early days internet was this? Yeah.

David Vogelpohl (03:09)

I might have done something before that, but that was the first one I remember. All right, cool. Well, let’s switch gears a little bit, kind of get get closer to the topic at hand. Could you quickly tell me about what Spiralyze does and what you do there?

Sahil Patel (03:26)

Yeah, thanks. I’m the CEO of Spiralyze. We’re an A-B testing company. There are 34,000 websites that run A-B tests somewhere on their website. We scrape all of them. We find the best A-B tests in the entire internet, then we run those for our clients.

David Vogelpohl (03:43)

Nice. So you’re detecting the sites that are running those tests. And then how do you know the ones that are best from sites you don’t control? I’m just kind of curious about this.

Sahil Patel (03:52)

Yeah, great question. How do we know which ones are best? Because all we can see is that they run a test and which version of the page, the A or the B, they chose at the end of the test. The first thing. No, go ahead, please, David.

David Vogelpohl (04:06)

So you’re, go ahead. I was gonna say, so you basically detect a test that’s happening and then when you figure out which one won in the end, you mark that as like that was the better one.

Sahil Patel (04:18)

Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. We’re doing those things digitally, but that’s a really nice way to describe it. If we.

David Vogelpohl (04:20)

very cool.

Nice, nice. I like the very simple explanation I needed to understand sometimes.

Sahil Patel (04:31)

We do this thousands of times a day. So what we’re looking for is not kind of one company running one test. If they do it, so what? It’s an anecdote, I’m not running out, tell them, I gotta say, you should go run this test. But for example, if we see 10 companies all run the same test and they converge on an answer, it’s what we call a proven winner. Those are the kind of tests that we like to run for our clients.

David Vogelpohl (04:59)

Right, because things are so specific to a specific company, I guess. So if you can look at multiple data points across multiple companies and find that common factor, you could identify something that would be, kind of in a sense, universally applicable to lots and lots of companies. Is that the gist?

Sahil Patel (05:15)

That’s right. That’s right. And you don’t have to look far to find one. I’ll give you an example of something that’s actionable for everyone listening at home if they say, well, hey, I’d love to try one of these. What have you learned that I could do right away? A great one to try is to show— But here’s the context. We’re talking about B2B SaaS companies.

And the problem many of them have is go to the home page. They have a picture of a happy person at the top of the page. Marketers call this the hero section of the page. This happy person costs you a ton of conversions. It doesn’t tell you anything about the product. It’s boring. And when someone is looking at your website, they’re there to buy software, which is to be really clear. They’re there to feel good about themselves.

They’re looking for product, and they’re somewhere on their buying journey. Some are early, some are ready to buy. That’s where they are. And the answer is, the A-B test I would run is, instead of showing a picture of a happy person in the variant, I would show a screenshot of your product.

And then run that test. Our data shows that just doing that can get you about 12 % more conversions from your website, from the traffic you already get, which is the beauty of conversion rate optimization, CRO. Take the traffic you already have, you run a split test, and you have the data to show whether it works for you or not. And you’re not blindly copying. You’re running the test. You’re not just doing it. But we’ve now seen this test run hundreds of times and has a high, high likelihood of

outperforming the picture of the happy person, that stock imagery of the person with a nice looking shirt looking or peering at a laptop looking at me. Who are all these happy people, by the way? Like what makes them so happy? I guess it’s better than sad people, but happy people don’t really convert that well. Pictures of your product convert much better.

David Vogelpohl (07:23)

Yeah, this debate actually is raging and FastSpring right now, which is like, okay, do we favor product images or people images and what degrees do we do that? Which one’s in the hero? Which one’s not like that kind of thing.

Sahil Patel (07:35)

And what’s the debate? I love that you’re sharing that, because my guess is people who are listening to this podcast are probably inclined to show the product. They get it. They maybe hear some this, this anecdote for me that there’s data behind it. But the reality, the messy reality is they have to then go convince some people internally. They may not be able to unilaterally run this AB test or just make the change. So what’s that? What’s that debate like internally? What’s the other side for the people that are.

in favor of showing more people on the website.

David Vogelpohl (08:08)

I think it connects to what I’ve seen is a shift in marketers mentality around CRO relative to optimizing favoring for emotion versus optimizing favoring for information. I heard this recently at Winter Games, but folks were talking about like people are there to buy products and features, not necessarily the outcome.

And so the outcome to me is an example of an emotion, right? Rest easy, do good at your job because of our product, hit your targets because we’re going to help you do that versus I need an ad network. I need an analytics platform. And so I think internally, what I think is at the root of the debates and many of these debates I’ve been in in the past is the blend between.

optimizing for emotion versus optimizing for information. So that’s my off the cuff version. How do you think about that, Sahil?

Sahil Patel (09:10)

Well, so first of all, thank you for sharing, because I think this is the messy reality of conversion rate optimization. So we don’t operate in a vacuum of a pristine laboratory where the only thing that matters is there’s a data set that tells us you should run this test. We’re human beings with, we come with baggage, good baggage, bad baggage, prior experience, a perspective.

And changing anything in an organization is hard. You have to do the work of selling it. Here’s a couple of ways I might sell it. One is through an analogy. I think the second is putting yourself in the point of view of your audience. And both of them are helpful. The first one I would say is this is sometimes if you want to actually make an emotional win the argument or persuade people through an emotional argument, I’d say this.

Think about, and I’ll ask David, I’ll post it to you. Let’s pretend that I was on one side of this, you were on the other. And I was saying, we need to show more product. And you’re saying, no, we’re giving you motion. I ask you this. Can you think of the last car commercial you saw? What was it? And I’m asking for real. What was it?

David Vogelpohl (10:25)

You’re asking the wrong person. I probably haven’t seen a commercial in like two years.

Sahil Patel (10:28)

Okay, well, think back two years. What was the last car commercial you saw? Okay, Ford. Can you picture the commercial in your mind? Like what was happening?

David Vogelpohl (10:32)

Let’s just say Ford.

It primarily pictures images of the truck that I saw.

Sahil Patel (10:42)

Yeah, if it was an F -150, it shows the truck driving up a mountain, probably going over some water and rocks. Maybe the people are putting their stuff, their camping gear. There’s probably some emotion. Maybe it shows them doing some happy activity that they’re only able to do because the Ford truck got them there. Fair? Is that?

David Vogelpohl (11:02)

But the person is often obfuscated, which you could argue is like that gives you room to be the person in the truck basically. Yeah.

Sahil Patel (11:10)

Yep, that’s right. That’s right. Now, if you reran that commercial and you digitally erased the truck, just think about what that commercial would look like. What would it be? What would you see?

David Vogelpohl (11:25)

smiling people at the beach enjoying their outcome of a trip and a hard to reach place because they had their trucks, something like that.

Sahil Patel (11:32)

Yeah, and you get the scenery, right? You see the camera panning, the bridge, the rocks, the mountain. Now, the little subtitle at the bottom says, closed course, do not try this at home, would make absolutely no sense. And the commercial wouldn’t work. You’d be like, what is this? Is this for a camping? And the emotion is there, but people buy a car. They buy it for a lot of reasons.

functional reasons, emotional reasons, value reasons. And you don’t know on any one day who is going to watch that commercial, just like you don’t know on any one day who’s coming to your home page. But if you wouldn’t run a car ad, I mean, no one in their right mind would run a car ad without showing the car. I don’t know why anyone would, when you put it that way, would anyone do a home page for a B2B SaaS company, not show the product? So that’s the analogy.

David Vogelpohl (12:26)

Yeah.

Yeah, if I was making a web page for a truck, I’d have a picture of the truck in the hero, not a picture of a smiling person. Yeah.

Sahil Patel (12:34)

There you go. Number two, this is the more, I would say, trying to be a pragmatist. Put yourself in the perspective of the random person that comes to your website. You’ve got about one second to convince them to stay. That’s the job of the hero section of the home page. It’s not to sell the product.

It’s not to explain the value of the product. It’s not even to convince them to read and educate, much less convert. Convert here means they maybe click, see a demo.

just to get them to stay. You’ve got about a second. So it can’t be complicated. It can’t be nuanced. And it has to cut through the noise. Your brain processes images faster than words. If you just ask yourself, does the happy person, which, by the way, could appear on any website on Earth, is it going to convince someone to stay? My guess is that FastSpring, you have competitors. Every company does. It’s got to be something that’s going to be to be

I always assume that they’ve looked at five competitors before they get to my home page. There’s got to be something in under a second that tells them, OK, let’s stay.

David Vogelpohl (13:56)

And this is intuitive and it’s interesting to hear how you’re looking at multiple tests, including those you’re not personally running to determine like who’s running these kinds of tests and what is like this universal signal. And that’s interesting to hear about featuring products over people. To dial it in a little bit on the B2B side of the CRO equation, what does that mean to you? Like, what are you optimizing? What are you trying to drive when you…

run a B2B CRO test?

Sahil Patel (14:27)

What I’m optimizing, great question, is can I get more people from the traffic you already get to turn into a sales prospect?

full stop.

Now, let’s unpack what a sales prospect means. But let’s be real simple, crisp definition. Traffic you already have, get more people to turn into a sales prospect.

Sales prospect if you’re a product -led growth company it can be that sign up for that 10 -day free trial If you’re a sales led company it’s Get a demo talk to sales get a quote some variation of it that’s for your highest intent audience. It’s the most valuable audience. That’s what everyone craves. It’s the hand raisers that go Hey, I may not be ready to buy but I’m ready to move towards the purchase

David Vogelpohl (15:20)

Thanks.

Sahil Patel (15:26)

That’s what I focus on. That’s what most of my clients, that’s where the value is, it’s what moves the needle. If you fully optimize that, then you start moving higher up the funnel for things like downloading a white paper, signing up for a webinar, reading some content. You should do all those, by the way. But you should start with the highest value, highest intent conversion on your website. And B2B SaaS, it’s a good idea.

Get a demo slash talk to sales or start your free trial. It’s almost always one of those two things.

David Vogelpohl (16:03)

I’m assuming for those metrics you’re excluding disqualifieds and things like that. Like it’s obviously more than just a form fill. When you think of quote prospect.

Sahil Patel (16:09)

Yeah.

Yeah. You should rate your lift based on the quality of the lift. Getting more lift, I don’t want to say it’s easy because nothing in life is easy, but you can do parlor tricks to just get more form fill. Cut out all the fields. Make it a single field. Sure, you should get garbage. You should track first. Did you get more of your traffic to fill out the form fill? Because if you can’t do that, none of the other stuff matters.

David Vogelpohl (16:40)

You didn’t –

Sahil Patel (16:40)

Once you do that, then say how, go ahead, David, sorry, please, you’re about to ask a question.

David Vogelpohl (16:44)

I was going to say what I didn’t hear you say is like your initial thing you’re optimizing for the primary thing is the softer leads, like the webinar, ebook download type stuff. A lot of folks place a lot of value in that one. We’ll even mention that as the primary thing they’ll optimize for, for B2B CRO. Why didn’t that make your cut for your top KPI?

Sahil Patel (17:07)

It doesn’t make my cut for two reasons. I’m going to put my CEO hat on.

I’ve got a revenue and a profit target I gotta hit. That target is on my back and I wake up every day thinking about it.

demo requests, free trial starts, or account sign -ups is what gets me to my target as soon as possible. It’s the highest intent, highest value, closest to revenue conversion you have on your website. Now, if you fully optimize that and you’re hitting diminishing returns on your A-B testing efforts, by all means, work on those softer, lower intent. Use some marketing speak.

top of the funnel or tofu type of leads. Sure, you should do it. I’m not saying there’s not value. You shouldn’t do that. But always, always, always start with your most valuable, highest intent conversion.

David Vogelpohl (18:04)

Yeah, it makes sense. Like they’re the most likely to emerge as pipeline and bookings. And so even if you’re optimizing those top of the funnel leads, you’re trying to get them to spit out the pipeline and bookings eventually. And if you’re putting too much value on the top of the funnel leads, then you may not even be representing real pipeline and bookings basically. Is that kind of the gist of how you think about it?

Sahil Patel (18:29)

100%, 100%. Let’s also go back to something I love that you raised at the beginning, just a few minutes ago, which is you’re having this internal debate about showing the product versus showing the people. I think if you have to sell people on just running the test, then you have to sell them on the outcome. Like here’s the results of the test.

I think if you are a CRO person, whatever your title is or function, you’re an agency or an in -house, you’re VP of digital, you’re an analyst, at some point you have to go to the senior people and say, we ran this test, here’s the outcome. And we got.

20 % more qualified sales leads. I validated them with the sales VP or the chief revenue officer and she’s thrilled.

Her pipeline is bigger, right? Yeah. Now, no, no, no, please go ahead.

David Vogelpohl (19:20)

So validating the quality of those as well. Right, because if I’m, go ahead.

If I’m only optimizing for raw qualified leads, but they don’t, they’re not quality as the sales team sees them. Cause qualified leads typically follow like a data pattern, right? Or a DQ from a rep. But then behind that, there’s still like a quality layer. And so what you’re saying is that by having the sales leaders validate those leads even further, it can help strengthen the case for why you should go with X or Y variant.

Sahil Patel (19:40)

That’s right.

It’s a, I’ve seen it happen and it’s a cautionary tale. You’re someone that works in marketing. You take a victory lap because you had this huge lift and then the sales leader goes, yeah, but they’re sh*t leads.

takes all the air out of the balloon. It’s not a fun moment.

David Vogelpohl (20:14)

Yeah, so take, so.

Yeah, I have fun in those moments because I learned something I learned. We didn’t work so try the next thing, but I know there’s like that sunk cost fallacy thing. People feel like when they spend a bunch of time testing something and it doesn’t work like all my ideas are bad or my execution was bad. Maybe, but like sometimes it just doesn’t work and like knowing that it’s valuable.

Sahil Patel (20:26)

Of course, of course.

So that’s the first thing. The second thing is.

really your sales team, your revenue team, whatever you want to call them, ought to be the biggest proponents of conversion rate optimization for the website. They are the biggest beneficiaries. In fact, they should be not just willing, but asking to ante up and put their budget towards CRO because they’re the main benefits. What salesperson wouldn’t want 20 % more qualified leads inbound?

Now let’s go ahead, please.

David Vogelpohl (21:18)

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Yeah.

Sahil Patel (21:23)

If we contrast that with you, I’m going back to the root question. Why do these type of conversions versus webinar signups? Because I think if you go to the sales leader and say, hey, we got you 20 % more webinar signups, I think he or she first goes, well, great, you got me from 30 people on an average webinar to 20 to 25. I’m not super excited about that. Also, if they say, well, what was the quality of that? Well, it’s going to be.

three months because we know from webinar sign up to drip campaign to nurture to sales demo takes three months and we know like one out of 50 actually turn into an opportunity. Just who’s going to get that excited about it? You got to do it. That’s an important part of the equation. It’s just not where I would start.

David Vogelpohl (22:12)

Earlier you said that sales leaders and salespeople should be the biggest advocates of CRO. I can think of a situation where it makes them very nervous and that is where you’re optimizing around lead gen.

Versus self -serve. Like I worked at a company called WP Engine We had like self -serve signups on the website and then like, you know schedule or demo or get a quote for like bigger services and If you want to you’re gonna test the the heartiness of your team start that debate around how you should change your pricing and packaging page with the blend of self -serve versus Lead forms and that the company was great. Everybody worked with is awesome

But obviously, this creates tension. So how do you think about that? How do you think about that blend in a B2B scenario where you have both the PLG self -serve motion and the sales -led motion?

Sahil Patel (23:07)

Ooh, you’re stepping. You’re opening a door. That’s tough to walk through, but it’s a really good one. Glad you asked it.

And let’s just assume for a moment that’s the right strategy for any particular company. You want to offer both. It fits your business model. I think the first thing is, I think you run different tests on both of those. And here’s why. They have very different down funnel conversion rates.

Because what you’re trying to do most of the time with PLG is make it as easy as possible to sign up and then give people really rewarding, fulfilling experience when they’re trialing your product. And industry average, what I read is somewhere between 8%, 10 % of free trials turn into a paying customer. And if you’re in that 15 to 20, you’re an all star. And I’ve seen some companies that are in like 3 % to 5%.

That’s a very different game versus the sales motion, which trying to do is just get people to talk to sales, but you don’t want to waste the sales team’s time. And you want to be a little bit more discerning with, hey, if you’re Sahil’s laundromat, why are you signing up for this enterprise software package? You’re going to waste my sales team’s time. So very different set of tasks. The first one is almost primarily about removing friction, getting people.

into that free trial as quickly as possible. And on the sales motion, I often run tests that are much more about improving the quality of the conversions so that the sales team goes, hey, my dance card is full of great prospects, real prospects. They’re in our ICP. They want to talk to me. They’re the kind of people I want to talk to. They have the headcount. They’ve got the revenue. They’ve got the problems that we can solve for.

David Vogelpohl (25:15)

If you separate your tasks on a page like that, obviously what’s good for self -serve and what’s good for sales assisted could be two totally different things, right? The best thing for sales assisted is to just delete the self -serve tiles. And the best thing for self -service is also to do that. The other way.

Sahil Patel (25:25)

Yes.

That’s a different strategy. That’s probably outside of CR conversion rate optimization.

David Vogelpohl (25:37)

Well, I mean, I really love extreme examples in business because it shows the tension. And so then obviously the answer is in the middle, right? And so I’m just curious, like if you have seen anything in the clients you’ve worked with or had any observations, it would be helpful about how to think about that tension. Like the way I’ve approached it in the past is, well, look, it’s all a revenue game. How much revenue did the A or the B shoot out? And…

Who cares about the mix of self -serve and sales assisted? So that’s one way I’ve approached it. I’m just curious like how you’ve seen it then.

Sahil Patel (26:15)

Is the question, David, like, how do you decide whether to hide one or the other? I think I lost you there.

David Vogelpohl (26:22)

I think the question is, if you’re a CRO in a scenario where you have both self -serve and sales assisted, what are some ways to deal with your test to get the most value for the company?

Sahil Patel (26:34)

to get the most value for the company.

David Vogelpohl (26:41)

I mean, how do you make the call? How do you know which one won or lost? If you tank the sales team’s leads with a B, that increased the total revenue, do you call that test? Yeah.

Sahil Patel (26:53)

I would. I would. Now, let me say, so let’s take that use case. You run an A-B test, and it shows why you’re getting fewer conversions. The conversions you do get are higher quality. Higher quality mean they fit the ICP, and the sales team says a higher percentage of these are turning into sales accepted or sales qualified leads. I think that’s the scenario you’re talking about. Is that right? Yeah. So first of all, I think most companies will take that all day long.

David Vogelpohl (27:17)

Yeah, basically.

Sahil Patel (27:22)

and I would call it a win.

Now the answer is there’s a trade -off that you have to measure. Is 10 % fewer leads for 10 % more qualified leads better? Most salespeople will take that.

David Vogelpohl (27:40)

What if you got 10 % less everything for sales, but total revenue went up? These are the types of decisions that I feel CROs have to make. And obviously, if you tank the leads for the sales team, that probably means somebody is going to get laid off somewhere along the way. So that’s a bad thing for the business. And then if you increase revenue but decrease the number of people signing up,

Sahil Patel (27:41)

There’s some extreme though that’s not. Go ahead, please.

Yeah.

David Vogelpohl (28:06)

then your total addressable market will start going down. And so these are the pressures I felt in similar roles in the past. I’m just curious, like, if you, how you think about it. We can keep going too. I was just curious.

Sahil Patel (28:16)

That’s a good one. It’s a good one. Here, I’ll answer this one. Let’s keep going. Let’s assume you mean you can actually attribute the change in revenue to that particular AB test. Is that right? That’s what you’re saying? OK. Yeah. I mean, first of all, I would tell everyone to throw just a word of caution. The further you get from the whatever activity you measured in your CRO test, you should take it with a bigger grain of salt. So.

David Vogelpohl (28:28)

Yeah, let’s assume that I get how tricky that yeah.

Sahil Patel (28:46)

you know, the form fill total, I think 100 % attribution, the impact on sales acceptedly pretty strong. Sales qualified lead also pretty strong. Opportunity, yeah, I’d put a lot of stock in that. Now, you know, kind of the value of the deal.

the whether it closed or not and the rate at which it closed, I would want to see a really big effect size before I drew a conclusion. Like a small nudge.

David Vogelpohl (29:15)

And the further you get.

Sahil Patel (29:19)

I would be hesitant to then claim a big conclusion about the impact. Because there’s so many other things that could have affected it. Do a trade show. You got a bunch of better leads. There’s some seasonal affect, all kinds of things.

David Vogelpohl (29:26)

Yeah, that’s a real…

Yeah, it’s a really good point, especially as you get further down the funnel in those metrics. And of course, those metrics get smaller and smaller. So it makes it, yeah.

Sahil Patel (29:44)

Yeah, your n is smaller. Yeah, I mean, a word of gosh, verily is like, don’t take your statistical significance on your conversion, like the form fill, and just assume that that’s true all the way down the funnel. It’s usually not.

David Vogelpohl (30:00)

Yeah, it definitely gets tricky, especially if you have like wildly different pipeline amounts or something per deal, like average deal size is like some whale will come in and you’re like our B1 and you’re like, well, not really. Just look at the op. You just got lucky. Yeah. So,

Sahil Patel (30:12)

is heavily tilted by this one. Yeah. Great point.

David Vogelpohl (30:19)

So that kind of brings up my next question, which what are the benefits or drawbacks of actually using pipeline and bookings? Like if I go to our CEO and ask about some test, he’s always like, well, how much pipeline and bookings sped out the other side of it? And rightfully so. But like, what are some other drawbacks and benefits to using those down funnel metrics?

Sahil Patel (30:38)

Well, I think that the main benefit is it gets the attention of the C -suite and it increases the likelihood that they will invest in CRO activities on an ongoing basis. That’s, I think, the most important thing and the best reason for using what CRO people call down funnel metrics. The impact not just on the form fill, but on sales, qualified lead, activation, account sign -up, whatever those things are, eventually revenue.

And you got to do it, and you should do it, and you shouldn’t shy away from it. I would lead with it, number one. And number two, the more you talk about it, the more you present it, the more space you have to then put caveats and just say, hey, let’s be realistic about what we know and what we think we know is the impact. And some of this is we have to speculate.

or we have to make a lot of assumptions for these realistic assumptions. But I would not shy away from it. When we do, I’ll say when I work with my clients, the impact on pipeline and on revenue is one of the first things we show them.

David Vogelpohl (31:53)

Yeah, it’s so important because there’s the politics of getting your testing invested in, getting the resources you need, the attention you need. And then as you pointed out earlier, kind of selling the results internally. And if your CEO or other leaders are asking about pipeline or bookings, it’s great to lead with that. I like that. Kind of reminds me of the trick of using Google’s PageSpeed Insights to convince your boss your website should be faster. See, Google thinks it’s slow. Yeah.

Sahil Patel (32:19)

Yes.

It’s good. It’s objective. It’s good. And I think that maybe the lesson learned, the actual insight I would tell everyone is spend a lot of time, maybe more than you think you need to, on testing the assumptions behind your estimated impact of an experiment on pipeline and revenue.

David Vogelpohl (32:44)

So earlier, you had mentioned that in your tests you’ve done and the kind of analysis you do of the 30 ,000 sites doing A-B testing, that product images are beating people images. You tend to. Yeah, I get it’s not absolute. Thank you for that clarification. What are a couple of other winning tactics you’ve detected that people could write down and go try on their own?

Sahil Patel (32:58)

They tend to, yes. They tend to.

Yeah, great question. Let’s do some actionable insights that people can take away. The second one I would do is, this is a great one to do on a home page or a landing page, is a quantitative bold claim headline.

I’ll give you an example. We’re in a client’s landing page, and it said something like this. Next gen.

financial reporting software.

It was just so bland. What does next gen mean? It says what it is. There’s no hook. There’s no benefit. It’s soft. I don’t think it persuades anyone. Just as bad as, you know, the number one financial reporting software. Just number one at what to whom? And no one 10x better than everyone else. No one believes that. It’s just not credible. There’s no benefit.

Now a better headline might be like, close your books 20 % faster than with spreadsheets.

I’m talking about this financial reporting software package. It’s specific, it’s quantitative, and it’s believable because it’s clear it’s 20 % better than what. Maybe it’s 20 % faster than using SAP, if you’re allowed to say it. You may not be allowed to say that. This is a great test to run, one, because it doesn’t require a heavy investment to run the test. You don’t have to do a lot of software development or designers or fancy graphics.

And you can run these tests very quickly at a low cost. Number two, it forces you to really articulate what is the value of our product? What is the hook that gets someone to stop scrolling and say, hey, this is the value to me. It’s not the emotion. It’s the benefit. So that’s number one. Number two.

is go on your website and find anything that’s more than two lines, like two line breaks. Turn it into bullet points. We call that skimmability.

David Vogelpohl (35:26)

is the benefit that you feel there? Like I feel like, I guess you’ve seen this in test results, that there’s different schools of thought on this. One thought is there’s skimmers and there’s readers and long form content is good for the readers and bulleted bold content is good for the skimmers. And there’s tension here too, when you create a landing page, cause you’re like, well, wait a minute, some.

Sahil Patel (35:32)

Mm -hmm.

David Vogelpohl (35:52)

I know our technical buyers, they like to read, you know, things like that. How do you how do you think about that? Like that’s that’s a bold claim even even in and of itself.

Sahil Patel (36:02)

So I’ll put some context around it first. I’m talking about a landing page, a home page, product page, not a blog, which is a blog should feel a little bit more conversational, a little bit more prose. You’re trying to get some people to think. But I think for everything else, home page, pricing page, demo request page, solution page, landing page especially.

No one is reading. Exactly 0 % of your audience wants to read. They’re all skimmers. And if you have any doubt about it, just go to YouTube. Go to TikTok. There’s a place for long -form content. It’s very valuable, high engagement. That’s why they call it long -form content. That is not what people are doing on your website. You’re fooling yourself if you think that’s what people want to do. Now.

David Vogelpohl (36:56)

So it’s.

Sahil Patel (36:56)

If you want to put that, I’ll just add a part. If you want someone to skim, and they like, and they want more, then take them to a place with more detail. Put that below the fold. Find a link. Read more here. You take them to your blog page or your detail page. Yeah, there’s a part of your audience that wants that when they’re ready for it. But don’t start there. No one wants a wall of text.

David Vogelpohl (37:20)

So it seems like you’re kind of positioning, and I’m going to paraphrase a little bit, that your home page and pages like that kind of have two jobs, to give you the gist and to point you in the right direction, where.

Sahil Patel (37:31)

Actually, I might change that a little bit. Your home page is there to get people to stop scrolling.

Full stop.

Once you’ve done that, then you do those other two things.

David Vogelpohl (37:48)

Ooh, I like that variation. And then my other follow -up question real quick on your bold claim one, I thought it was interesting the way you described that, you know, close your books 20 % faster. I feel like most people think of bold claims as like representing their scale, you know, over 2 million businesses trust whoever, you know, like that kind of thing over like an outcome oriented bold stat. Did you choose that example like that on purpose or do you think, okay.

Sahil Patel (38:13)

I did. I did. Bolt claims should be a direct benefit to the user. You then support that claim with the copywriting on the page. One of those points can be social proof.

Our data shows bold claim, especially when it’s quantitative and specific, with support. And one of those support things is social proof, like 2 million happy customers, whatever, quadrant leader according to Gartner, five stars on Capterra. Those help people believe the bold claim. But the reverse is not as effective. If you lead with a,

you know, four stars on Capterra and then the sub bullet is close the books 20 % faster. It doesn’t perform as well. Yeah.

David Vogelpohl (39:05)

It doesn’t make sense as a story, even. Yeah. All right, that’s cool. Last question. If someone wants to get in touch or see what you’re up to, how should they do that?

Sahil Patel (39:17)

The best place is on LinkedIn. I post every Tuesday and Wednesday at 7 .30 AM Eastern.

David Vogelpohl (39:25)

Ooh, very scheduled there. I like it. Sounds like you.

Sahil Patel (39:28)

It is, and I try to keep everything short, sweet. You can get something from it in about 60 seconds.

David Vogelpohl (39:37)

Excellent, excellent. Well, thanks so much for joining and sharing today, Sahil. So glad to have you here.

Sahil Patel (39:43)

David, thank you for having me. This is a lot of fun.

David Vogelpohl (39:46)

If you’d like to learn more about what Sahil is up to, you can also visit spiralyze.com. Thanks everyone for joining us on the Growth Stage Podcast. Again, I’m your host David Vogelpohl. I support the digital product community here at FastSpring, and I love to bring the best of the community to you here on the Growth Stage Podcast. Thanks everybody.

The post EP22: Proven A/B Test Winners for B2B CRO appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> EP18: Using PLG and Sales Led Growth Together to Drive Exponential Results https://fastspring.com/blog/using-plg-and-sales-led-growth-together-to-drive-exponential-results/ Thu, 04 Apr 2024 13:00:00 +0000 https://fastspring.com/?p=29208 As an experienced sales and GTM leader, John Eitel has more than witnessed how product-led growth (PLG) has affected the tech and SaaS space in the last few years — he and his teams have been up close and personal with how PLG increased in popularity as a sales strategy. “I think there was a […]

The post EP18: Using PLG and Sales Led Growth Together to Drive Exponential Results appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> As an experienced sales and GTM leader, John Eitel has more than witnessed how product-led growth (PLG) has affected the tech and SaaS space in the last few years — he and his teams have been up close and personal with how PLG increased in popularity as a sales strategy.

“I think there was a time of, ‘Everybody should be doing it; why aren’t you doing it?,” he says.

After becoming the It Thing that many organizations adopted quickly — “The pendulum swung maybe a little too far,” John explains — GTM teams are now finding a balance between sales led motions and product led motions to fully optimize adoption and sales of their products.

In this episode of Growth Stage, we interview John, Chief Sales Officer of Demandbase, about his adventures solving exponential growth puzzles within organizations like Canva and others using both PLG and sales-led growth motions. John shares his thoughts on: 

  • The financial benefit of focusing on both.
  • The common struggles organizations face when pursuing both PLG and sales led growth.
  • What success looks like for using both together.
  • Specific tactics you can use to drive value out of both sides of your growth funnel.

If you’re struggling with how to use PLG and sales led growth together, don’t miss this episode of Growth Stage!

Are you looking for a merchant of record that will partner with you to grow your business internationally? FastSpring provides an all-in-one payment platform for SaaS, software, video game, and other digital goods businesses, including VAT and sales tax management, payment localization, and consumer support. Set up a demo or try it out for yourself.

Jump to video.  |  Jump to transcript.

Podcast Full Interview: Audio

Podcast Full Interview: Video

Transcript

Producer  00:00

This is the Growth Stage podcast. And here’s your host, David Vogelpohl.

David Vogelpohl  00:04

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Growth Stage podcast by FastSpring, where we discuss how SaaS and digital product companies can grow revenue, build meaningful products and increase the value of their businesses. I’m your host, David Vogelpohl. I support the digital product community as part of my role here at FastSpring. And I love to bring the best of the community to you here on the Growth Stage podcast. In this episode, we’re going to be talking about how you can use PLG product lead growth, and sales lead growth together to drive exponential results for your business. And joining us for that conversation is someone who I personally know has a lot of experience this from time we work together in the past, and certainly in this person’s current role. But I like to welcome to Growth Stage. Mr. John Eitel. John, welcome.

John Eitel  00:54

David, thanks for having me on.

David Vogelpohl  00:56

Yeah, so glad to have you here. I know, you and I have been through quite a few adventures on this front. And I’m sure you’ve had plenty of your time there at Demandbase. And I won’t give away too much of the lead here. But really excited about this interview. So for those watching and listening, what John is going to talk about today, really his adventures, solving growth puzzles, with organizations like Canva, Demandbase and others, using both PLG sales, lead growth motions, I’m sorry, PLG, and sales lead growth motions together in order to drive exponential results. So really looking forward to the conversation and digging into this. And I think there’s, you know, this tension there with product lead growth and sales lead growth. And it’s like PLG, supposed to replace Sales Lead growth, but that doesn’t really work in b2b. And so this notion that they should work together, I think, is really powerful. John, to kick it off, I guess I’ll ask you the same question. I asked every question or every guest here on Growth Stage, what was the first thing you bought online?

John Eitel  02:03

Gosh, the first thing I bought online, it’s hard for me to remember back to that, like, it’s so it’s like, you know, kind of like asking about the first time you took a breath, right? It feels like we’ve been doing it for so long. Probably, uh, you know, gosh, maybe was it CDs, I mean, I feel like, you know, maybe maybe that would be out, I think being a big music guy kind of feel like being able to buy music online in an actual non mp3 format, physical, physical disk sent to my, my house, maybe through Columbia House or something like that would probably be like one of my earliest memories of using the internet to buy things. I

David Vogelpohl  02:42

really liked the restraint you had and buying your music back in those days instead of the file sharing. All right, so tell me a little bit about Demandbase and what your role is there.

John Eitel  02:57

Yeah, so Demandbase, you know, has an interesting, I would say, kind of origin story. But, you know, obviously, we started out in, you know, Account Based Marketing, you know, which were really, you know, was tied to, you know, being able to make very targeted, you know, purchases of advertising so that you could go after specific, you know, buyers with messaging that was relevant, and kind of follow them wherever they go on the internet. And, you know, I think it’s a great strategy to be used when you have a very defined, you know, ICP that you’re going after, so if you’re, you’re going after the, you know, 1000 CIOs and the Fortune 1000, right, you can, you can use, you know, use our platform to be able to target them and make sure that, you know, when they went to the internet, they were receiving your messages, you know, prioritized you know, since then we’ve, we’ve taken our DSP and a lot of the tools and power that it gets us to be able to, you know, be able to get intense signals and be able to see like, when people are looking online for you, when they’re searching for your competition may be searching for things that’s, you know, really, you know, relevant to, you know, needs, you can you can help them solve their and then, you know, we took intent and then we added in some acquisitions that we’ve made over the last three or four years and we built this complete you know, it’s a go to market console where sales and marketing now you know, live in work together can action on a lot of these very targeted strategies to be able to meet customers where they are, you know, with the right message at the right time, and make sure that you’re landing things more effectively. And so I do you know, I define it in a lot of ways but it is kind of sales and marketing magic. And that you can be very prescriptive in the way that you you go to market here you can you can land you know, your your, your touch points more effectively, and hopefully win together more effectively, which is the power of what we do.

David Vogelpohl  04:43

And what do you do there, John? So I

John Eitel  04:45

am the Chief Sales Officer, which means I lead sales for you know, us globally you know, across you know, all of our different regions and capacities. So, you know, it’s been great to kind of drive build and kind of grow their their their sales right algae are.

David Vogelpohl  05:02

Excellent. Well, that’s really interesting to hear. And I know that, you know, as we think of product led growth, this idea of your ICP and what they experience, you know, you were talking about the personalized advertising, you know, kind of ABM focus follow you around the web. And I know that these same kind of activities play out on the product side. So this dance between how we go to market and how customers and potential customers experience our products. Seems like there’s some interesting overlap there. So earlier, I described briefly product lead growth. I’m just curious, like, what what you think though, what does that mean to you? What is product lead growth?

John Eitel  05:44

Yeah, well, I think I’ve actually had the benefit, and the ability to be a part of some pretty cool, you know, product lead growth stories, David David and I worked together at a company that had elements of product led growth, so that’s probably where I, you know, began kind of my fascination with it, and, you know, went to a company called Canva, and took them through a lot of their, you know, series of kind of growth and expansion into new regions and markets. So I feel like I got a lot of like, I would say, you know, you know, the, the the NBA of kind of doing it in motion here of PLG. But it is, you know, it’s a new way of kind of looking at, you know, how you attract and, you know, kind of grow customers using the product as the hook to be able to get them, you know, into your kind of funnel and being able to use the product ID to drive usage, adoption, expansion, you know, throughout the lifecycle of a customer. So, you know, as opposed to the old kind of, you know, method that which is, you know, your sales lead growth, which we’ll talk about probably next year, you know, really kind of flips things around to use the product is the the entry points to be able to attract, retain and grow customers. Yeah,

David Vogelpohl  06:53

it feels like the promise of it is something akin to build a great product, people will organically be attracted to it, they will sign up for the product on some form, maybe through a free trial. And then that’ll be so amazing that they’ll want to pay. And then after the fact, your in product experiences will be so amazing, that one has been more on more things. And so it’s like this promise of almost like automated acquisition and upgrades I feel like underpins the kind of core value people put forth with PLG. You think that’s a fair way to look at it? Or how might you think of that?

John Eitel  07:29

Yeah, yeah, no, I think it is. And, yeah, I think it’s great to and that it puts you know, puts product at the center of the universe, it doesn’t mean that, you know, any of those things like sales and marketing are less important, you know, but I think it just changes the way that you, you know, embrace these things. And it puts, you know, puts emphasis on, you know, making sure that you’re building a great product, right, if that’s your entry point, that it has to be a great experience, it has to be, you know, something that has some virality to it right, or else this thing doesn’t work or takeoff, I think that’s kind of one of the core tenants. And so, you know, it’s what I really love about it is that you, you build that focus around the products, and then you know, you put the right touch points to kind of enable that customer journey. And it just turns out to be a more effective, you know, probably way for a lot of companies to acquire customers and matches well. So I think the way that the buying behaviors are shifting, right, I think that people want to self serve when they can, you know, they want to, you know, not just hear from you about how great your product is they want to experience it, you know, and so this gives them that ability to be the driver in this situation.

David Vogelpohl  08:35

So it’s kind of like this idea that like good UX, good product experience is always good. And these debates are always funny, like, what’s better, you know, PLG, or sales, like growth, or like human written content versus AI written content? And like, a lot of the times the answer is, what if you mash them both together? Maybe that’s the best answer for the puzzle we’re solving here. And so I feel like that kind of underlying promise of almost like, costless revenue, like your product department is going to generate all your revenue for you, is probably short sighted and coupling that especially with b2b with sales, like growth missions, you know, feels like the winning combination. So now, we’ve kind of established what PLG means to you. What does Sales Lead growth mean to you? Yeah,

John Eitel  09:22

I mean, I think that is the more traditional, you know, version of, you know, basically, you know, sales that that we know, we’ve known historically, and it really is, you know, very much human human driven, right, it’s sales and, you know, marketers, you know, kind of creating the right messaging going to market with the right sales techniques and tactics, you know, it’s largely driven by humans is what I like to say, you know, that’s that that’s the piece that really kind of makes it differentiated from a product like growth strategy.

David Vogelpohl  09:52

And so I think like one of the benefits for me on the SOG side is the benefit of context and adaptability. So in other words, if I’m a prospect, and I’m looking at a product, and I’m going through the sales team and talking maybe to a sales engineer, if it’s like that kind of product, or whatever it is, that I can get a lot more context a lot more quickly. And it makes up for a lot of bad product experiences, right? You’re like, oh, yeah, this is how you do that work your job to be done. And so I feel like that’s one of the strengths of SLG is really to understand that better understand the value, but also understand how configurable the product might be, or how it might fit with your particular use case. And I find that that’s near impossible to replicate in a product context.

John Eitel  10:41

Yeah.

David Vogelpohl  10:42

What do you think about that?

John Eitel  10:43

No, that’s a good comment. I mean, I think like, I put emphasis on, you know, human, you know, for a reason there and chose that word wisely. I think that that’s exactly it, David, that I feel like, you are able to be, uh, you know, be able to smooth the bumpy road of a product experience with humans, right, and the ability to, to gather feedback and be adaptive. And so I think the, the human element is really great there, you know, for certain areas, and I think it, you know, is the way that we’ve always kind of historically done things. And so I think we’ll talk a bit about some of the, the nuances of different strategies, but I would say like, in some places, like, that’s an expectation, right, you know, I think that there’s, you know, there’s a couple of different trends we’re seeing people want to buy, you know, they want to self serve, you know, when they can or buy, you know, without a friction filled experience, right? But then there’s some times where it’s like, well, I want to talk to a human right. And, and so like you, it’s, you know, there’s certain places where I think a sales lead experience has to be there, or has to be a component of it, because I think people, people buy from people, you know, at the end of the day, like that’s, that adage is still true to this day. And I think there’s certain elements that really have an important point of differentiation there.

David Vogelpohl  11:57

Now, there are tensions that emerge within organizations between product teams and sales teams over when PLG should be the focus versus sales lead growth. You talked about self serve, maybe as one example, where a product group might favor self serve motions over say, demo based motions, or at least motions that require a demo, maybe before trial, like that kind of thing. And I think a lot of you tackle this in different ways. Some times there’s big rivalries and lots of tension. Sometimes there’s more of like a working relationship where we’re both trying to improve on both sides. Our time at WP Engine reminded me of that, actually. But what do you think? Like, mean, what are the financial benefits of working together? Like maybe putting your company hat on for a minute instead of your just your sales hat? But like, why, what benefits? Can folks maybe think about or expect if you’re working with them both together? Like why do this?

John Eitel  12:55

Yeah, well, I think, you know, it varies, you know, by by company, you know, space product, right? I think there are lots of reasons to think about this. And I think you mentioned, you know, my background is a puzzle solver. And I’ve been, you know, said that a few times, but I think that’s what I enjoy about what I get to do, because I think you have to be able to be a you know, sales, or go to market kind of puzzle solver or problem solver to figure out like, what is the right thing. And I think that the interesting thing is, I think a lot of folks think of this decision as very binary, like you have to do one or the other, you know, you know, or, you know, or else and I think that there is you know, a place for combining, you know, these things, there’s a place to think about like timing of when to use one over the other, you know, there’s all those things that kind of play in and so I think like my advice always is, as someone who mentors and advisors, many, many companies in the, you know, PLG, SLG, PLS, you know, kind of insert TLA here, we’re all it is that you have to be, you know, adaptive, and you have to be able to look at these things in lots of different ways. And I think, you know, just using my Canva experience, as a, you know, kind of a bit of a story around that, even to David was, you know, when I was brought in, like Canva grew, you know, for their first six years of their company, five years with a company without a sales team, they grow with all product led growth, they were largely in consumer and I think, you know, consumer can can get by doing that, that motion, and it’s a very beautiful, efficient thing. But they found that people were starting to take their product to work, right, like, kind of like Dropbox started the shop and enterprises Canva onto the show up and enterprises as well. And so, you know, they tried to use PLG to attack the enterprise solely on its own and they found quickly that, you know, is great for getting entry points and PLG can can be this this perfect way for us to get our toe in the door. You know, but we eventually found out was that there was like stall points where, you know, we found that lots of companies of 1020 employees would pull out a credit card I’d sign up overnight to use Canva. And, you know, there was a belief that, you know, gosh, if we go to bed and wake up tomorrow at 20, we’ll be 40. And then it’ll be 60. And they never really kind of grew beyond those stall points once we define them. And the reason and rationale for that was that, you know, they were being used largely in a very departmental manner. So if they wanted to expand outside of the department, it meant that we’d have to probably engage procurement and meant that we probably have to engage security to make sure that we are compliant with their standards, we would probably have to tip some radars because I think a lot of these folks have actually done this just kind of going rogue with departmental expenditures that they can make on their own. You know, and so it meant that we were gonna have to raise the visibility on this in the right ways to be able to go from 20 users to 1000s of users at these big companies. And so that was when it was really important for them to think about, like, when do you bring in this augment augmentation strategy of sales? Like growth? And how do we leverage it in the white right way? And that’s my commentary about this being a very binary thing. And I think sometimes people are like, okay, good. So are we gonna flip all the way to Sales Lead growth, and it’s like, no, like, you know, we need to think about, you know, the elements of each and how to use them in the right ways. And so when we built the sales team on top of the product, lead growth strategy, you know, it was fun to think about, like, okay, not everybody gets a sales experience, like, let’s still let people self serve, let’s let people get interest, let’s let people start to use the platform. And then when they get near to this, like stall point, like, let’s make sure that we inserted a sales resource at that time to say like, we’d like to talk to you about expanding your use case with us, let’s talk to you about how we can, you know, begin to develop our relationship together and work together in a more meaningful way. And that was when we would bring in the sales resource. And so it became very much complementary, you know, with a lot of other pieces that we kind of layered in more and more over time, and it was fun to kind of crack that puzzle and mature that that organization, but that was a lot of it. It was again, like finding that that right kind of tipping point of balance and when to insert, you know which strategy at the right time.

David Vogelpohl  17:06

Yeah, so that balance it sounds like is the key there in thinking about through the stories and examples you just provided? It sounded like one financial benefit of that approach is new ARR acquisition, right. In the case of Canva, you were talking about how layering in the Sales Lead growth on top of the PLG. You could leverage the PLG for this entry points. And then Sales Lead growth expand across departments. So you’re you’re you’re opening up bigger customers with higher MRR it sounded Of course, like that would then equate to more ARPU, which, you know, dippin for most businesses is going to be a positive driver of your valuation. And then you also talked a lot about upgrades there. And this is being really influenced it sounds like by the ARPU, in other words, lower ARPU transactions are less likely to be sales assistant, higher ARPU, ones are more likely. And with those self serve smaller accounts, there might be an enterprise upgrade, they’re sitting around, that’s, you’re not going to get 20,000 of MRR or something from a CTA in a product page. Right. And that is, am I getting that? Right?

John Eitel  18:21

Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. So yeah, I think the, you know, the key elements are, you know, there are some definite financial implications of like, when to use one over the other, you know, acquiring customers obviously, feels like the easiest, you know, least expensive way to acquire customers, but there’s also elements of like, you know, growth that can be unlocked by putting a sales lead strategy in place over that.

David Vogelpohl  18:44

Yeah. Okay, that makes a ton of sense. And I know you’ve worked at a few words that have leveraged PLG. And obviously, your perspective isn’t limited to your own experiences. But But do you find most orgs favor investments in one or the other? Like are people addicted to PLG? And so they’re just trying to make everything PLG? Have you seen that they’ve been blended? Or? I’m sure depends on the company, but like, what are your observations there?

John Eitel  19:09

Yeah, there’s a lot going on. And I think, you know, it is a, you know, it’s an interesting topic to bring up, I would say, obviously, like, consumer, for sure. Like, I think consumer really drove a lot of the success of PLG. And then it started to move into these new kinds of contexts of b2b. And I think that’s been, you know, fun to see, you know, over the last few years to like PLG really saw a rise and there was a lot of great stories around it, like the Calendlys, the Dropboxes, you know, the Miros of the world. You know, Canva’s, you know, all these great stories that started to come up. And so, you know, I would often get people asking for advice on like, How and when do we bring this in? And so I would say like, I think there was this, like, started with consumer moved into the b2b context. I think there was a time of like, everybody should be doing it, why aren’t you doing it? And I think that It settled out a little bit in that, you know, it’s not so extreme of like everybody should do it, why shouldn’t we do it now. And it’s it’s back to some sort of reality, which is, which is great. I think that’s the good thing about like balance. And like when things get out of control, the pendulum swung kind of a little, maybe a little too far. But it’s now back to the middle. And I do believe that everybody should have some element of it in their kind of playbook or strategy. There’s lots of different ways to use it in different kind of contexts. And so it’s not again, not that very binary, like, you know, we’ve got to go all in on it and bet the farm, it’s like, let’s place it in the right place to drive the right impact here.

David Vogelpohl  20:39

You know, it’s funny, the examples you gave, we are often in these kinds of conversations, talk about b2b and b2c. And the reality is, especially for the mid market, a lot of that b2b is a self serve motion, right? If you’re buying Canva, for your three salespeople at your small law firm, or I mean, our law firm has salespeople that I don’t know insurance firm or something like that, then credit card transaction online makes all the sense in the world, right, and I never gonna upgrade that much. So like, let’s just do it that way. But, you know, as my org gets bigger, and my needs get more complex, I probably need to talk to somebody about that. And that’s where sales lead growth comes in. And, you know, it’s funny, because I think one trend I’ve noticed is a trend towards trying to make that b2b process easier for folks, even as simple as like the transaction or payment can be very complicated for sales teams, and, you know, custom systems created to support all that funky ways to create invoices and send out places for people to enter their credit card for sales assistant transaction. Do you ever get jealous of the ease of how PLG is kind of just like go through, click a button, and pay? Maybe Demandbase has that really well built out or something? So I just curious, like, from the ground level, do you think those sales lead growth motions could be easier and more intuitive for the reps and the prospects 100%.

John Eitel  22:07

And I do think like, you know, there’s lots of times where you feel tension between the different, you know, kind of models and versions and things like that, but I think like the world is all going to easier transactions and easier to do business with and easier to, you know, to do the things that we want to do more effectively. And so, I think PLG probably PLG, you know, being relatively new means that these companies, you know, were built in the last, you know, kind of decade. And so I think they’ve got the benefit of modernization and building for, you know, the right foundation for scale. And so I do think that that is something that they’ve got going for them. And I think we can all learn and model from, you know, I think that’s, you know, even if you’ve been in business for 20 years, I think we should be all looking at our processes and thinking of ways to like make it easier and more efficient to do business. And I think there’s, there’s a, there was a maybe a, you know, belief that’s changed, or maybe a misbelief that we had that, you know, you had to, you know, gate contents, or you had to add friction in the system, right? Like, let’s get content, like, let’s make them talk to a salesperson like because that’s, that’s where the value is, you know, and I think that pendulum is shifting now where it’s like, let’s also make it really easy for them just to do things they want to do, and not make their life more complicated. But I think if they want to also be able to talk to it and you know, real person, like let’s fast track them to that experience, too, right, and being able to provide both. And so I like that I think actually, even in past worlds, like ones you and I’ve worked in, like, I think we should be looking at that, from like, legal perspective, like we were, you know, heavily in you know, invested in making it really easy to like, make our terms easy to accept and click through, right. And it was like, let’s just, you know, not overly complicated, let’s not drop a binder on somebody, let’s, you know, put in the right protections for the business, but make it easy for people to just say, okay, I can I can agree to this, even the biggest companies in the world, right? And then it’s like, okay, you we means we can use less legal resources, it means we can slow down transactions, or the we can speed up transactions, we have transactions, yeah, is when we’ve historically slowed them down. And I think that’s just a good example of where we should be looking for these pockets of efficiency, you know, it would not only make us better as businesses, but it would probably make customer experience buying from us even better.

David Vogelpohl  24:25

Yeah, cuz like as a buyer, you’re thinking like not only am I gonna have to have multiple meetings, and then I’m going through his sales team, but I’m also going to have a complicated transaction on some level. And, you know, obviously for teams that work for companies that haven’t figured that process out on the back end very well. That means probably cramming a bunch of transaction admin time at the end of the month, like you’re trying to get deals close like these can be very disruptive not just for the prospects but for the sales teams themselves. In your experience, working with product teams, and you know the sales teams, you relating what what are some common tensions that arise? Like, one example might be I don’t know, like the product team figures out the free trial process really, really well. And now there’s people that are self serving, instead of going through a sales team, have you ever had to deal with, like, quota attainment issues are like Target changes? Like? Or maybe there’s other tensions that you think are more relevant, but how do you think about those tensions?

John Eitel  25:25

Yeah, I mean, I think like, you know, as you’re going through change, there is always going to be tension, right. And anytime you’re evolving or adapting a strategy, there’ll be tension, you know, with the old way of doing things and the new way of doing things. And, you know, the beauty is always in how you navigate those, when I remember even, you know, with you and I working together in the past with what we kind of had our elements of PLG on which was self serve for our customers, right, we had that that constant debate of like, is the sales lead cannibalizing the self serve, right, and, you know, vice versa, right. And so I think, like, that’s, that’s always one that you’re, you know, want to be make sure, make sure you’re mindful of, and that you’re not, you know, feeding one, you know, stuff that would naturally just kind of flow through another, etc, and taking from one to make make one look better. And so I think that’s, like, kind of step one is like, how do you make sure that you’re not cannibalizing, you know, one for the other there, I think, you know, it can, but we had a lot of, you know, kind of even more kind of scaled nuances and that they’d never had a sales team before. So building this whole sales team from scratch was, was in way kind of like a, an introduction of kind of a whole new thing. And again, a greenfield motion, and, you know, we had to be able to think about like, when do you put a sales resource on some of these customers, and again, you know, if your that your example of the three person Insurance Agency, right, that just bought for their sales team, and they’re probably never going to grow their original insurance, you know, firm of 1010 people, right? Probably don’t want to have a seller ever touch that, right. And so like making sure that you have like, hard and fast rules of like, what a sales experience is and what it isn’t, and make sure that you don’t deviate from them. And so, you know, we define that really to say that, hey, our enterprise offering, which was what our sales lead, you know, group focused on was, how do we bring Canada into b2b, we wouldn’t go after that 10 person group, because we knew that three people would always probably be three people, regardless if we talked to them for hours or weeks, right. And so really trying to focus your resources up market, and we targeted kind of the mid market all the way up to the biggest brands in the world there. And so that was kind of a, you know, our first kind of, like, hard and fast rule of like, let’s make sure that, you know, we don’t overburden, you know, kind of people with talking to sales, let’s make sure we use the sales resources on the accounts that matter. And that was really helpful. Like, there’s, you know, there’s two sides of the tension as well, like, if you’ve always been PLG, you know, and you’ve gotten, you know, really addicted to that, you know, ability to acquire customers, you know, affordably and easily, you know, there was a lot of like conversations I have with the with the CFO of like, do we really need a sales team? Like, do we really need, you know, this? Could we just make a few tweaks to the product, and we wouldn’t need a sales team? Right, you know, and so, you have to be kind of, like, comfortable with having those conversations when going through this, you know, evolution there. And so, you know, it was it was it was a good healthy tension, I would say and a good dialogue that we were always having, and it was, you know, also I would say, largely, you know, stepped through and that I was like, I’m not going to overuse that we’re not going to overpay salespeople to touch customers that don’t need that touch, like, let’s put them on the ones that matter. Else prove that they do matter, right? And like, are we able to move these customers from, you know, a 40 person stall point, like I described of like, you know, departmental usage to 1000s of users? How do we take them from kind of like a very kind of, you know, nascent entry points to an employee, it’s ELA, where everybody in the company gets access to it, and they see it in their, you know, as, as a software package that’s supplied by their employer. And that’s a that’s a whole different motion versus, you know, pulling out a credit card to sign up.

David Vogelpohl  29:01

Yeah, that’s really interesting. You know, I think from the ruleset perspective, it sounds like a really clever way to help alleviate some of those tensions in terms of like, when sales will focus on prospect or a customer for upgrades. And when they won’t, you know, and it’s funny because it’s easy to sit back on like an interview like this and breakout or abacus and say, well just go with the thing that makes the most money for the company, right? But the reality is, you have teams on the ground, you have quotas to hit. And so one of the things that really kind of bugs me I feel in business are things I call invisible lines, where we make some sort of attribution line within the business to give credit to this group or that group for this, that or the other. But the reality is the sales team wouldn’t sell anything and the product team wouldn’t have anybody using their products, particularly on this bigger customer side without some form of selling effort. And so FastSpring We follow the product lead sales philosophy, really where We look at our product and how it can support our sales funnels. So it might be a CTA that has a chili Piper link in it to schedule time with the sales engineers or something like that. Do you have any examples of when you felt product and the sales team have worked really well together on something from your past?

John Eitel  30:20

Yeah, no, that’s a it’s a great, great reference to the invisible lines theory. I think that’s actually something I, you know, I felt that I haven’t heard that way. So I think that’s really cool. Yeah, no, I think that’s the key too, I think that’s, you know, as I advise others about like going through this journey, you know, I think you have to be heavily partnered with products and more so than any place I’ve ever been, like, I think like, you know, sales and product always have, I think, a kindred relationship, and that they, you know, feedback flows both ways, and one owns the product, one owns the customer relationship, you know, the connection has to be strong, but I think we really thought about it in a, you know, kind of three concentric circles model of like, you know, sales, marketing and product all together, you know, working on these things. And I think that that’s something that comes with companies going through this evolution is like, realizing that we’re all equally you know, kind of in this together. And, you know, that’s so important to establish that early. And so I’d say like, that’s something that I’ve seen and sensed and felt work. I think like, it means once you kind of make that shift, and you really build that strong foundation, you know, you have to have the telemetry in place to be able to see customer behaviors better understand, like, when insert those sales, you know, kind of touch points. And I think if you’re working on this in the right way, in the right, you know, sophisticated organization like product will define that with you and help get set and move those lines occasionally to with each others where, you know, we started to spot like these customers, we are using Canva, as an example, Canva is a design tool for everyday people. And so we knew that basically, if someone joins, you know, at a big company, and, you know, that was a great sign. So that was like, kind of like the tip, tip of the, like, beginning of the conversation, if we saw them, create, you know, 15 to 20 designs in a month. Like, that was another great sign if we saw them inviting people to join a team with them, you know, another great sign, right? So then we knew, Okay, those are the things that needed to happen again, before a salesperson got involved, you know, so it was like, okay, you know, we were getting a lot of this great telemetry from the product organization. You know, it’s great for me to think about almost, you know, like, you would have done SDR, it’s like, okay, well, how do I nurture them through that before I get a salesperson involved, because if a salesperson doesn’t get involved till, you know, 40, people have joined a team at Microsoft to use the product, right? Like, I want to speed up that journey, right. And so we created this, you know, kind of Canva coach model, but it was like, you know, someone who, you know, would work with those customers, when they hit a couple of those thresholds, and be able to, you know, be able to say, let me do a training for your team, like, let me help create 20 templates to complement the 20 you just already built, like, you probably want a corporate presentation, you want business cards you want you know, employee signatures, like let me show you how to do those really quickly and build your brand kit. So again, like we were able to kind of think about this baton passing back and forth, you know, between product and sales and like, augmented with the right people. And so I think that was something that was really, you know, fun to see and kind of get that validation on. And we met regularly, we were always adapting together. And I think that’s the key to is like, you don’t kind of set those invisible lines and then like wait for things to kind of work naturally, you have to like, test measure, test again, and reassess. And that’s where we have to kind of be very fluid in that since I think there was there was a lot of great examples, I think the product or you know, was was a major part of their DNA at Canva, who obviously it’s a it’s a product and design company that was you know, you know, graded at PLG. And so they have that DNA, you know, mastered, I think me coming in with my teams being layered on top was kind of fun to be like, you know, this new, you know, kind of superpower for them to kind of layer in and, you know, allow me to kind of tap into.

David Vogelpohl  34:05

That’s awesome. That’s so cool to have that experience to kind of coming into it on top of that strong PLG org. And you know, I think, you know, when I feels like when a lot of people think about, well, how can product help sales, it usually has to do with like layering some sort of CTA and some sort of product or, potentially, of course, changing the way a product works to make it more sellable. Like that kind of thing. And I think the piece that doesn’t get as much attention, which is what you hit on was just access to data usage data thresholds. And of course, a good PLG group is going to be thinking about like, Okay, well when they’ve almost use all their I don’t know Canva thingies; we’re going to show them a adoption to upgrade their plan, you know, self serve and portal or something like that. But it could be usage or it could be behavioral, like you said number of users like that kind of thing. That paints a picture that wait a minute, maybe If someone should have a conversation with these folks and make sure they’re getting the best value out of our products, they’re connecting with sales. It’s an unsung part of how product can support sales. I feel. I don’t know, what do you think, John?

John Eitel  35:14

Yeah, no, I mean, I’m smiling too. And I think like, back to the adapting piece, and I think that’s what’s really great about your podcast, David is that, you know, it’s, it is truly a constantly evolving, developing, you know, concept that we’re working through, it’s going continuously getting better, I think all the things that have been done, you know, are great to learn from you get to stand on the shoulders of giants and learn from their mistakes and, you know, get get access to that. I’m, you know, one of the things that kind of even, you know, was interesting for me was, you know, you talk about like product product qualified leads PQ ELLs is something that kind of comes out too, as you think about a sales lead motion coming in. And I would say like, one of the things we quickly learned in Canva. Two is that the concept of, you know, product qualified leads didn’t necessarily work if we transition from a consumer, SMB to this enterprise context, and I’ll explain that a little bit better. But I think the, you know, the neat thing was that, you know, 40 people who signed up at Microsoft, you know, did it probably unbeknownst to their boss, or their boss’s boss, and probably just said, Hey, I need to do my job. And this is an easier way to do it. So I need this tool. And so they went out and bought it there. But you know, when, when you think about them as a product, qualified lead, like going to sell to them, like, when we reached out, they’re like, Please don’t tell my boss, like, if my boss finds out and asked me to, like, shut this off, I call the shadow as soon as they shadow IT purchase. So they’re like, yeah, like, we love the tool, you know, it helps me be successful. But please don’t tell anybody. It’s like, okay, I get it. Like, I don’t want to blow up your situation here, I get it. And what we ended up trying to realize was, when they get to that kind of 40 person, kind of momentum stall plan area, it becomes more of a product qualified accounts. And that was the, you know, the thought of like, okay, if you’re gonna, you know, now prospect into the CMO, you know, you’re gonna call them, you know, now at this point, and you’re going to call, you know, a couple clicks ahead of the team that’s even using it right, so you can reach out to them. And again, not to blow them up and, and call it their usage. But just to say, look, I think we’ve got a tool that can really help you. Here’s how we’re helping other companies in your space. This is what the the advantages that they see from it, and why you might be a good fit for it. And then it becomes actually a kind of flipped with a situation because oftentimes, whenever I’m being sold to, you know, my first reaction is like, do I have time, money and resources to implement a new tool right now, like everybody’s thinking from that concept, hopefully, as a business owner, and so they’d be like, yeah, it’s gonna be really hard to adopt. I don’t know if my teams would get on board. And it’s like, well, that’s great that you brought that up, we actually know that there’s a team internally that started to use it. And we’d love to make them you kind of a champion in this process, and really kind of showcase their usage. So you make them the hero in the story. And it really, you’re gonna change the way that we kind of, you know, went to went to market and were able to kind of, you know, crack the code of how do you break out of the business unit and go through a larger part of the part of the organization?

David Vogelpohl  38:08

Yeah, such an attractive, yet tricky part of having a b2b product with more of a PLG, or self serve motion, and trying to surface it into these broader accounts with the bigger org, and not making us getting someone in trouble for circumventing it. Or I could imagine the CMO being like, why is HR using Canva to create creative for our company like that should be, you know, our official way, like that kind of thing. But it’s such a big opportunity. But yeah, obviously a really tricky dance there. Yeah.

John Eitel  38:45

Well, last comment, as I talked, I’m sure you get a lot of folks saying this on your show. And, you know, I’d say like, I talked to a lot of my peers at the time and continued and like, the tricky dance is absolutely right. Like you nailed it. I felt like my sellers, at one point, were like, Hey, I’m just going to email the CMO and say that there’s a team of 40 people using it. And like that turned into like, Hey, let me forget it and shut this down. I was like, yeah, the art of the dance was an important thing there and that you had to think about, like, you know, let’s make them two heroes in this story. Let’s bring them to the forefront at the end of the of the sales pitch, not at the beginning. You know, and like, let’s use them as a as a way to be able to get traction and momentum early and highlight that there’s a need, you know, to have a solution like ours in place.

David Vogelpohl  39:29

Well, that may be your most valuable tip of the podcast, John, because that’s not an easy one to solve for. But thank you so much for joining today. And this has been really informative. I really appreciate it, John. Yeah.

John Eitel  39:41

Likewise, David, great to reconnect with an old friend and yeah, excited to talk shop anytime, and had a great time on the show today, so thanks. Excellent.

David Vogelpohl  39:50

If you’d like to learn more about what John is up to, you can check him out on LinkedIn or visit demandbase.com. Thanks, everyone, for joining us. For the Growth Stage podcast if you’d like to learn more about FastSpring and how we can help you sell globally, and keep your engineering team focused on your products, visit fastspring.com. Thanks everyone for joining and enjoy the rest of your day.

Are you looking for a merchant of record that will partner with you to grow your business internationally? FastSpring provides an all-in-one payment platform for SaaS, software, video game, and other digital goods businesses, including VAT and sales tax management, payment localization, and consumer support. Set up a demo or try it out for yourself.

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]]> What is CPQ (Configure, Price, Quote)? Does your business need it? https://fastspring.com/blog/what-is-cpq-configure-price-quote/ Fri, 16 Dec 2022 21:56:38 +0000 https://fastspringstg.wpengine.com/?p=27170 Finding the right tools to streamline your sales processes can be key to running a more successful and profitable sales operation. One popular solution for managing and automating parts of the sales process is by using CPQ (Configure, Price, Quote) Software. However, what is a CPQ and what are its primary benefits? And most importantly, […]

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]]> Finding the right tools to streamline your sales processes can be key to running a more successful and profitable sales operation. One popular solution for managing and automating parts of the sales process is by using CPQ (Configure, Price, Quote) Software. However, what is a CPQ and what are its primary benefits? And most importantly, does your business need it? 

What is a CPQ? What are its benefits?

CPQ (Configure Price Quote) is a type of sales software that allows sales reps to quickly and easily configure products and services, generate accurate pricing, and create quotes to be sent to customers. 

Here are some of the key advantages of using a CPQ:

  1. Accurate Product Configuration: It’s easier for sales reps to build a customized package of products and services depending on a prospect’s specific needs and requirements. Since these are configured into the system, CPQs also reduce the chances for errors or misunderstandings. 
  2. Automated Pricing: Sales reps don’t have to manually calculate the pricing estimate each time they’re doing a quote because pricing information is already built into the CPQ. This ensures that quotes have accurate and up-to-date pricing.
  3. Professional-looking Quotes for Prospects: CPQs often have customizable templates that can standardize the appearance of quotes, making them easy to understand for prospects and customers. This improves your chances of closing deals faster. 

When is it time to use a CPQ? 

Businesses typically consider a CPQ system when they want to achieve the following, after hitting a certain point of growth: 

  1. Price compliance and consistency among sales reps
  2. Streamlining quote creation and management 
  3. Shortening overall sales cycle

These are all especially important for when your sales team is getting caught up in more administrative tasks than they can take on, and for when you want to implement scalable processes within the organization. In addition, price compliance and consistency is important for when you want to ensure that your sales team isn’t making unauthorized changes to pricing in order to hit quotas. 

However, what most people don’t know is that CPQs can be expensive, complex, and difficult to implement and maintain. 

What are some disadvantages of using a CPQ?

Here are some disadvantages when it comes to using CPQ systems: 

  1. It can be expensive. There are upfront costs when choosing to implement a CPQ, as well as ongoing subscription fees, which can lead to it being a major investment for organizations. 
  2. Implementation can take months. Because of the complexities surrounding CPQ software, it can take months to implement it and usually requires specific consultants to get it off the ground. 
  3. Complex to use and maintain. CPQs can be inflexible and difficult to customize, and often requires a really strong RevOps / Operations team to maintain it. It often requires dramatic rework anytime pricing or packaging needs to be updated. 

Although CPQs can be advantageous especially when enforcing price compliance and consistency, the difficulties to implement and maintain the tool might be at the expense of your sales reps’ and operations teams’ productivity. 

So, do you need it?

Generally, CPQs are designed for large enterprises with a more complex product catalog. However, there are a few factors to consider, especially for small-medium businesses. 

  1. Size and Complexity of Sales and Operations Teams 
  • If you have a small sales team, implementing a CPQ may not be necessary. The system might be too much for what you’re trying to do; all the more if you don’t have a strong operations team to back up your sales team. The success of CPQ software heavily relies on its implementation and maintenance, often done by your Revenue Operations / Sales Operations team. Having a strong RevOps / Operations team is key to making the most out of a solution like CPQ. 
  • However, if you have a large sales team and a strong RevOps team to maintain your CPQ solution, then it could potentially make sense. 
  1. Product and Service Catalog 
  • If you sell simple, standardized products or services, then a CPQ may not be necessary. A tool like CPQ is best utilized for complex products or services that require customization and configuration per account. However, there are other tools that can provide this benefit without going the full route of implementing a CPQ. 

What’s the alternative? (Especially for SMBs)

Depending on the use case, there are a lot of alternative tools that you can use for your business. 

Typically, SMBs can greatly benefit from using a dedicated quoting software, which can help in generating quotes quickly and accurately. A lot of these quoting softwares already offer many features such as product and pricing databases, customizable templates, and the ability to handle complex configurations – which are mostly the key things you’d want from a CPQ software anyway. It is oftentimes a more scalable and efficient tool compared to using a manual spreadsheet program. For a list of comprehensive quoting tools, you can check out HubSpot’s list here.

However, one tool in particular that gives you most of the core benefits of a CPQ tool is FastSpring IQ. 

FastSpring IQ (which stands for Interactive Quotes) is a lightweight CPQ alternative that’s specifically designed for small-medium businesses. 

For sales reps, IQ provides an easy way to create, customize, and manage sales quotes, as well as keeping track of deals and integrating everything into your CRM platforms. 

For RevOps and Operations teams, it’s a more flexible solution to implement price compliance and consistency among your reps, and provides a good approval workflow for your quoting process.

It also offers real-time analytics, eSignatures, and payments, for a simpler and more effective quote-to-cash process. 

The best part is that you can get started right away and test the platform out as much as you want – IQ is free for up to 2 users, core functionalities and unlimited quotes included. Find out more information here.

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]]> The Best Checkout Page Templates for Your Brand’s Website https://fastspring.com/blog/the-best-checkout-page-templates-for-your-brands-website/ Wed, 22 Jun 2022 19:00:15 +0000 https://fastspringstg.wpengine.com/?p=25258 The following article is a guest post written by Tony Minh Do, Marketing Manager at HubSpot. One of the most important parts of your store is the checkout page. Working with a website checkout page that will convert more visitors will help you increase sales. Knowing what to track and how to meet your guests’ concerns proactively is even better. And that’s what […]

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]]> The following article is a guest post written by Tony Minh Do, Marketing Manager at HubSpot.

One of the most important parts of your store is the checkout page. Working with a website checkout page that will convert more visitors will help you increase sales. Knowing what to track and how to meet your guests’ concerns proactively is even better.

And that’s what we’ll go over today. Here’s what you’ll learn:

What Is a Checkout Page?

Figure out if your checkout page gives visitors everything they need without overwhelming them.

The checkout page is the second to last page your visitors see in their shopping journey. It’s also the last step before they commit to making a purchase. 

Cart abandonment and second-guessing can be big issues here, so you want to take steps to encourage customers to continue.

ALT: A graph from the Baymard Institute showing why customers abandon carts. Many of these issues are related to the checkout page. The largest at 48% is extra costs are too high, like shipping and taxes
Image Source 

The best way to do so is by reassuring customers. Provide confirmation on the following information on your checkout page:

  • The customer’s information
  • Shipping details
  • Billing details
  • Order number for tracking
  • Price and payment information

By providing that information in an easy, clear-to-read format, customers can verify the information they need to continue with their purchase. 

In most cases, you’ll want a one-page checkout to make customers feel at ease. The number of pages can, however, vary based on product type. Just make sure the submit payment button is easy to find at the journey’s end. 

Why Checkout Pages Should Be Optimized 

Optimizing your checkout page helps provide a seamless checkout experience. It concludes the customer’s purchasing journey and helps you continue to build trust. Therefore, you want to create high expectations for your customers and meet them. 

Not doing so could be costing you sales. The average cart abandonment rate is roughly 69.82% across all industries.

Moreover, research from the Baymard Institute on cart abandonment found that many reasons a customer doesn’t complete their purchase are also related to the checkout page. 17% of respondents said the process was too long or complicated, and 16% said they couldn’t calculate the total cost upfront before purchasing. 

In contrast, optimized website checkout pages offer a streamlined checkout experience that addresses customer concerns and improves conversions.

It’s important that each step of the checkout process is logical and doesn’t waste the customer’s time. For instance, a simple change such as going from separate first and last name form fields to a single full name option could help.

Also, you shouldn’t add new, weird fees or last-minute charges that differ from your product pages. That catches customers by surprise and deters them from making purchases.

Other design steps can help optimize your website checkout page too. For example, are you taking advantage of white space? Is your call to action (CTA) above the fold? 

And more importantly, does your checkout process flow well in mobile and desktop design?  

Barilliance found that 85.65% of mobile device shopping carts were abandoned compared to 73.07% of desktop carts. As more traffic comes from mobile, you need to ensure their experience is great, regardless of screen size.

At the end of the day, if your design is too complicated, customers will abandon their carts. The easier and more attractive the checkout process is, the more likely you are to convert these visitors into customers. 

What KPIs Should You Track When Creating a Checkout Page

You can see how your checkout page performs by tracking the right KPIs. While these can’t always answer every question, they should help you identify what you should change about your website checkout page or user experience.

Just remember to be skeptical about your metrics by double-checking these numbers when possible.

CRO of online shoppers in the 3rd quarter of 2021 by device. Desktop was 3.7%, tablet was 3.3% and mobile phone was 2.2%
Image Source (Statista) 

That said, here are some metrics worth tracking:

  • Shopping cart abandonment rate: If this is high, something is probably wrong or confusing with your checkout flow. Try comparing to others in your industry as well.
  • Conversion rate: The higher your conversion rate, the better. SaaS companies might need to be aware of their unique challenges when calculating this.
  • Cost of customer acquisition: Represents the effectiveness of your marketing efforts. The worst thing is if this is more than the value a customer brings in.
  • Customer lifetime value: How much does the average customer spend overall throughout their relationship with your company.
  • Average customer order value: How much does the average customer spend per order.
  • Average duration on page: How long did check out take?

5 Checkout Page Templates and Examples

Now that we’ve gone over the basics of checkout pages and why you want to optimize them, here are a few examples to give you a visual idea of what to aim for. 

These checkout page templates are simple, clear, and provide the information customers need to complete their purchases. 

1. Photobucket

Photobucket has an easy-to-understand website checkout page.
Image Source (Photobucket checkout page screenshot). 

Photobucket is an online photo storage service for users who need extra cloud-based storage. Its checkout page template is simple, with only the necessary form fields shown. 

Pricing is clear, and it’s easy for users to know which payment method they’ve selected and when their payment will be processed. The whole thing has been simplified into only a few clicks, which helps reduce cart abandonment.

2. Sketch

Sketch has a very clean checkout page template despite being a graphic design software company.
Image Source (checkout screenshot from Sketch)

Sketch is a UX design-focused SaaS company. While most of its website is full of bright colors, videos, and eye-catching graphics, its checkout page design is deceptively simple.

Sketch asks for only the necessary information and shows the pricing at the top and bottom of the checkout page. Everything is in black and white. Only a few details like credit card logos offer a dash of color.

3. Adobe

Adobe offers a really intuitive website checkout page with savings highlighted and clear CTAs.
Image Source (checkout screenshot from Adobe) 

One of the most famous design software companies worldwide, Adobe also has one of the easiest checkout pages to complete. It highlights the savings you can take advantage of while making it easy to tell how much your total is.

The payment forms are easy and allow for many different choices. Lastly, Adobe has a bright blue CTA asking you to complete your purchase.

4. FreshBooks

This checkout page template from FreshBooks is simple but has a fun design.
Image Source (Checkout screenshot from Freshbooks) 

Freshbooks accounting software offers a fun twist on the website checkout page. FreshBooks has a bit more color than many other brands on its website checkout page, but it uses it effectively. 

The credit card-shaped payment form fields are a fun touch, especially for a financial platform. Besides blue, they offer a contrasting pay now CTA and easy-to-understand pricing.

5. HubSpot

HubSpot offers chat options right in the checkout so that users with questions don’t have to exit the screen to get help.
Image Source (checkout screenshot) 

Last but not least is HubSpot, the CRM software company. HubSpot also uses minimal colors, a simple layout, and easy-to-read forms. The checkout design is similar to the rest of its website, keeping everything on brand. 

Pricing is clear, but if users have any questions, they can use the chat option right on the screen.

How To Use FastSpring for Your Online Checkout

FastSpring and HubSpot work together to make easy-to-use checkout page templates for even complex quotes.
Image Source

FastSpring offers a modern, intuitive, branded checkout experience that drives conversions, improves revenue, and reduces cart abandonment. These layouts are great for straightforward pricing, but things can get complicated when your company offers quote-based pricing. 

In cases like these, you might want to look for solutions like FastSpring’s Interactive Quotes (IQ) to help make these custom checkout options easy for customers. For example, you can integrate FastSpring IQ  with HubSpot CRM to populate interactive quotes easily.

FastSpring’s Interactive Quotes (IQ) add end-user-adjustable sliders and checkboxes that allow prospects to update options and pricing in real-time to suit their needs. The changes are easy to track and make understanding your quotes simple, making it easy to align on pricing. 

What To Do Post-Checkout?

After optimizing your website checkout page, it’s time to work on the post-checkout process. That may involve the following:

Send a Confirmation Email

Email is important for every stage of marketing your product, even if web visitors don’t complete the purchase. Barilliance found that 15.22% of cart abandonment emails were opened in 2021, helping businesses close even more sales. 

You can also send a confirmation email after the checkout process is complete. That way, the customer can feel secure their transaction went through. Some email services automatically send these emails with all of the details from your checkout page.

That includes:

  • Order number
  • Order details
  • Cost
  • Name
  • Other important information

Templatize Your Email

To save time and reduce the chance of errors, create a few email templates you can reuse. These also work great with CTAs to connect with customer support if needed, building continued trust with your customers.

Provide All Communication Methods

Nothing builds trust faster than making it easy to get in touch. Add an email address for customer support, a business phone number, and even consider working in a ticketing system if applicable.

This is also an excellent time to work on some subtle upselling. You want the customer to feel connected, so add social media links and provide a newsletter signup option.

Allow Refunds or Cancellations

Allowing refunds helps improve the customer experience and builds trust between you and the customer. If it’s too difficult to cancel an order, the customer might never want to shop on your site again.

While it can be difficult to lose the sale, the customer will appreciate a frictionless refund policy, and it will reassure them that they can trust you and your website in the future. 

They’ll also be more willing to come back if they know refunds are a hassle-free experience.

Provide a Method for Feedback

Post-checkout is a good place to ask for feedback from customers. After all, your brand is fresh on their minds. Create a contact form or survey which allows customers to provide feedback after important touchpoints. 

These touchpoints may include times like after a sale, after a refund is issued, or after speaking with a customer service representative. You can learn why the customer chose to ask for a refund or if they found the product satisfactory. 

Act on That Feedback

Don’t just let these forms pile up. Make sure all of the data you collect is stored safely. Then use the feedback and the KPIs we mentioned above to continue to improve your website overall and the checkout features you provide. 

Final Thoughts: The Best Checkout Page Templates for Your Brand’s Website

While a checkout page template looks simple, there’s a lot of thought into what goes onto each page. You want to provide a last-minute confirmation of the process for your customers, but you don’t want to overwhelm them. 

Design trends for checkout pages have continued to veer towards simplicity, making it easy for customers to verify the information without getting distracted by flashy graphics. Additional features like email sign-ups and a refund policy can fit in, but try to keep them in line with the rest of the page.

You want to keep track of how your checkout process flows and get feedback from customers who completed a purchase. An easy way to take care of all of these concerns is to use a service like FastSpring. We take the guesswork out of more complicated sales processes so you can focus on your products.

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]]> B2B Lead Generation: 8 Proven Strategies From My 20-Year Sales Career https://fastspring.com/blog/b2b-lead-generation/ Wed, 03 Nov 2021 18:56:00 +0000 https://fastspringstg.wpengine.com/?p=22463 B2B lead generation is more than just presenting prospects with fancy features and benefits. For example, not long ago, we were migrating the subscriptions of a new customer into our system.  This process is normally straightforward, but in this case, we ran into a delay. Even though it wasn’t our fault, the delay meant this […]

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]]> B2B lead generation is more than just presenting prospects with fancy features and benefits.

For example, not long ago, we were migrating the subscriptions of a new customer into our system. 

This process is normally straightforward, but in this case, we ran into a delay. Even though it wasn’t our fault, the delay meant this company might not be able to process existing subscriptions for several days — a poor way to start a relationship with a new software-as-a-service company.

Now, we could’ve told them, “Figure out how to stay with your current provider for another month so you don’t lose revenue while we sort this out.”

But I’m a sales leader, and sending business to my competitor is always an option I’d prefer to avoid.

A Simple Solution: We Called Each of Their Customers

Rather than frustrating our new customer with a delay, we simply looked up how many rebills they had to process in the next few days. 

There weren’t that many, so we just called their customers on our own and asked them to enter their credit card information into the new payment system.

It was a low-tech solution, but it was effective. It showed our commitment to their success, and it kept them from losing revenue (and possibly customers!) as they switched to our payment platform. 

What does all of that have to do with B2B lead generation?

Simple: Success in sales is often about going the extra mile to serve your customers any way you can. Time after time in my career, it’s creative solutions like these that close deals, delight customers, and lock in repeat business for years to come. 

In this article, I’m going to share seven B2B lead generation strategies and tactics that I’ve found to be effective across my 20-year sales career.

Note: FastSpring is the No. 1 merchant of record service for growing SaaS and software businesses. Learn more about how FastSpring can help you grow your business worldwide.

1. Be Incredibly Curious

Many sales reps are often too quick to jump to solutions when instead, they should just be curious. With curiosity, you’ll find out details that will surprise and even benefit you in the sales process.

For example, you might discover that a prospect is on the brink of losing her job if she doesn’t solve her problem. Or maybe you learn she’s on the cusp of earning a nice family vacation if she does.

When you jump too fast to offer a solution, you overlook details that indicate your prospects’ motivations. You also run the risk of losing credibility by recommending a solution that a prospect has already tried. 

2. Measure Your Results

This might sound crazy, but I often think of B2B sales as similar to cooking scrambled eggs. Unless your eggs are 100% cooked, they won’t be any good.

The same can be said about B2B sales. Until you close the deal, everything you do before the sale doesn’t matter. 

A lot of inexperienced sales reps judge their success based on how much work they’ve done — not on the results they’ve achieved. 

A deal that’s 70% cooked is the same as 0% cooked. Whether you’ve spent five minutes or five months on a deal, it’s only when you close that you have something to show for your work.

3. Make It Easy for the Prospect to Buy

You have to make it easy for your buyers to buy — and that’s true even if it means doing something that isn’t in your standard process or scope. 

The story above about importing customer credit cards by calling people to get them to re-enter their information?

Obviously, that wasn’t in our standard process or even part of our normal scope of work. But it gave us an opening to close the deal, so we took it.

4. Leave a Footprint

I often see plenty of salespeople who are afraid to leave a message when they call a prospect. They’ll call someone three times a day yet never leave a voicemail.

Doing that is a lot like the scrambled eggs story I mentioned earlier. By calling or following up without leaving a message, you’re taking an action that doesn’t actually cook your breakfast.

You have to be purposeful with every action you take. That means leaving a footprint. 

Don’t call if you’re not going to make sure someone knows you called. Don’t send someone an email just to check in. Follow up in ways that deliver value for your prospects.

5. Call Everyone

Another way many salespeople miss the opportunity to leave a footprint is by not reaching out to everyone in an organization. 

Let’s say you’re trying to sell to a sales manager, but the only name you have is for a sales rep at the company. Don’t avoid the company waiting on the perfect information. Use what you have and call that rep so you can introduce yourself. 

You don’t even have to ask him to put you through to his manager. Just be curious.

Find out if they have a problem your software solves. Ask for their recommendation for who you should talk to. And ask how he would approach his manager if he were in your shoes.

This is how you get into a B2B prospect — by calling anyone and everyone until you gain some information, then using that information to connect with the right people.

6. Work Together With Marketing

The idea of friction between marketing and sales is completely foreign to me. For most of my career, these two departments have always been lockstep with each other.

Getting sales and marketing on the same page starts with coming from a place of genuine alignment — not KPIs. Both departments have to see themselves as siblings.

When they’re aligned, differentiating between marketing qualified leads and sales qualified leads becomes irrelevant. All that matters is finding and closing more of the right-fit customers.

Some of the most effective tactics for getting sales and marketing on the same page might not sound like rocket science. But they can feel like science fiction when they work.

They’re tactics like:

  • Encouraging sales reps to learn information from a prospect that can help marketers create more effective nurture tracks.
  • Empowering sales reps to act when a customer engages with marketing materials such as blog posts and other content. 

Don’t wait for marketing to engage your target customer. As a salesperson, that’s your responsibility too. 

7. Always Do What’s Best for the Customer (Even When It Won’t Impact This Quarter)

If it’s clear that a prospect isn’t interested in your software, change directions. Pivot to a place of education instead.

This is another area where curiosity comes into play. Start leaning into questions like:

  • What problem is the prospect trying to solve in their business?
  • What are their biggest challenges?

It might be related to the product you sell. It might not. Whatever their issues, be a resource.

You can then send them content created by your marketing team that addresses those issues. Or you could point them in the direction of other people who’ve stood in their shoes and overcome the same problems.

Having your prospects’ best interests in mind might not always lead to an immediate sale. But it can bring them one step closer to trusting you more. 

A year from now, when they are in the market for a product like yours, they’ll remember that you went out of your way to help — even when it wasn’t going to earn you a commission. 

8. Vary Your Stories, and Don’t Give Up!

Finally, a mistake that a lot of sales reps make is that they’ll engage prospects with the same message over and over again. And when it doesn’t get a response, they’ll assume those prospects aren’t interested. 

But it could just mean that the prospects don’t care about that specific message — or that specific message right now.

The most successful sales outreach cascades from one topic to another over time. 

If the concept you’re talking about now doesn’t click, wait a little bit. 

Then, move on to another topic, reach out again, and see if you get a response. 

The next thing you know, a year will have passed, and you’ll find yourself recycling the same message you started with. 

And sometimes, a year later, things will be different, and you’ll get a response this time — because now they have a need.

Never assume that a lack of interest means they’ll never become a customer. Just because they’re not interested today doesn’t mean they won’t be in the future.

So don’t give up!

Note: FastSpring is the only merchant-of-record provider with built-in tools to help you close larger B2B deals. Learn more about our Digital Invoicing and Interactive Quotes, two of our best B2B sales tools.

The post B2B Lead Generation: 8 Proven Strategies From My 20-Year Sales Career appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> How to Create a Winning B2B SaaS Proposal https://fastspring.com/blog/how-to-create-a-winning-b2b-saas-proposal/ Wed, 23 Jun 2021 18:28:51 +0000 https://fastspringstg.wpengine.com/?p=21009 Effective B2B SaaS proposals focus on the customer, their pain points and how you'll solve their problems. Follow these steps to create a winning B2B SaaS proposal, and close deals faster.

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]]> Traditional B2B SaaS proposals are in serious need of a revamp. As buyers continue to shop online, learn different buying processes, and are aware of how smooth an ideal customer buying experience should be, it is time for B2B companies to adapt. 

The state of proposals is currently ineffective. However, proposals are still important in the B2B purchasing process. Their overall buying experience heavily influences your prospect’s entire decision. The most effective sales proposals are all about the customer, their pain points and how you’ll solve their problems. 

What does a winning proposal look like now? How can a customer-focused proposal close deals faster? And how do you reclaim control of the proposal process?  

Challenges with Traditional B2B SaaS Proposals

The B2B SaaS buying experience isn’t as smooth as shopping online for a t-shirt. The process currently is clucky and lengthy for both buyers and sellers. The proposal process currently faces the following challenges:

  1. Version control is difficult
  2. Proposals can be confusing to navigate 
  3. Traditional proposal lack interactivity for your prospect, and you, the seller
  4. Pricing is one of the most essential parts of a B2B SaaS proposal 
  5. Proposals can be a lot of information 
  6. Prospects know how to buy

The Anatomy of a Great B2B SaaS Proposal

It is time to say goodbye to the old and hello to the new. Forget lengthy documents, and odds are no one is going to read 100% of the words. Put your customer first when building a winning B2B sales proposal. Create a proposal that answers all their questions and proves your product will solve their problems.

Introducing the new way of B2B proposals:

  1. High-Level Overview
  2. Highlight Your Solution
  3. Pricing
  4. Optional Add-Ons
  5. E-signature & Direct Payment 

Want to compare the traditional format to the new successful format? We made that easy for you. Download the Guide to Writing B2B SaaS Proposals That Close Deals Faster. 

The Steps to Create a Winning B2B SaaS Proposal 

Proposals are what stands between you and a new customer. Creating a winning proposal doesn’t have to be a complicated process. The buyer’s experience with your proposal should be fluid, simple to grasp, and consistent with the rest of the buying process. Here’s a quick summary of our 13-step checklist for creating a winning B2B SaaS Proposal: 

  1. Organize your key details
  2. Speed-up workflow
  3. Design with intent
  4. Focus on the buyer
  5. Highlight your solution
  6. Make it engaging and interactive
  7. Make it actionable 
  8. Clarify your message
  9. Watch your tone
  10. Get approvals
  11. Proofread and polish
  12. Monitor engagement 
  13. Plan your follow-up strategy 

Level-up Your Proposals

Let’s talk about step 6, “Make it Engaging and Interactive.” By creating an interactive proposal, you are streamlining the buying process directing through your sales funnel. FastSpring Interactive Quotes clearly outlines your proposal process to close deals faster. Better understand your prospect’s needs while successfully communicating and engaging with them throughout the entire process. 

Interested in creating winning B2B SaaS proposals that are not only engaging and interactive but close deals faster, set up a time to chat with FastSpring IQ. 

The post How to Create a Winning B2B SaaS Proposal appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> 9 SaaS Sales Questions to Help You Sell Remotely https://fastspring.com/blog/saas-sales-questions/ Tue, 08 Dec 2020 23:07:00 +0000 https://fastspringstg.wpengine.com/?p=19242 The needs of today’s SaaS buyers are increasingly complex, which makes asking the right SaaS sales questions to get the deal to close a challenge for sales reps. Selling SaaS already comes with a steady stream of challenges – like getting ghosted by prospects and never-ending Zoom fatigue.  But when your prospect is moving in […]

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]]> The needs of today’s SaaS buyers are increasingly complex, which makes asking the right SaaS sales questions to get the deal to close a challenge for sales reps. Selling SaaS already comes with a steady stream of challenges – like getting ghosted by prospects and never-ending Zoom fatigue. 

But when your prospect is moving in the right direction, your SaaS sales questions need to be sharp to get the deal accelerated to close. It’s critical to evolve your SaaS sales questions list to match the ever-changing needs of your customers. Here’s our list of the 9 SaaS Sales Questions that will save you time and get you to close faster.

Advice from Our SaaS Sales Expert, Taylor Bond:

“Selling SaaS is no easy task, it takes a lot of research and prep-work to understand your buyer’s needs and wants. Whenever I hop on a phone call or Zoom, I want to go in with open-ended questions that will give me insight into what the prospect is looking for and how I can help them. I use these ten SaaS sales questions and have noticed I have seen a huge increase in engagement and interest with my prospects”

— Taylor Bond, Head of Growth at SalesRight


(Make sure to read all the questions, we saved the best for last!)

SaaS Sales Questions

1. What is the number one thing you want to get out of this call?

This should always be one of your first questions. The important detail of our phrasing? Asking them to nail down their top priority for your conversation. That way, you immediately identify the best use of your limited time. 

2. I’d like to start by hearing your understanding of our product so I can fill in any gaps or clarify any of your initial questions.

You don’t want to repeat what your prospect already knows. If they’ve done their homework, or have found your product through referral, then they may know a lot more information than you think. 

3. How do you solve [problem that your SaaS solves] today?

Gain insight into what the prospect is currently doing, make sure to listen to, and not assume, what their pains are. This will help you key in on the most relevant benefits of your SaaS. 

4. If at any time during this discussion you feel like this isn’t a fit, are you comfortable telling me no?

This question accomplishes two points: it offers your prospect a sense of control from the beginning of the buying process (this is proven to help deals close faster), and ensures that you are both making the best use of your time. 

5. How would this purchase impact your team’s ability to meet their goals and KPIs?

Connect the dots with your prospect about the quantitative impact your solution could have for them. By asking this question you’re positioning the value of your product in a way that will make your SaaS an irresistible solution. 

6. Are there other decision-makers on your end that we should engage in these conversations?

Many times when you book a call or demo with a prospect you may not be speaking with the only decision-maker. Identifying any other players is important to creating the most realistic timeline to close, where everyone has had a chance to be looped into the conversation. 

7. How does your team typically evaluate software purchasing decisions?

Every purchase decision team is different: some want to just into a trial to conduct a self-evaluation, some want numerous demo calls to dig deep into the product, and some have many hoops to jump through. Understanding their process as soon as possible will help you prioritize your work and create realistic timelines to close. 

8. If we can solve [the problem your SaaS solves] by [timeline your current customers start experiencing results], what would it mean for your business?

This question shows a realistic timeline for seeing results, which can increase your prospects’ motivation to close. It also paints a picture for your prospect of how their future could be positively impacted with your SaaS as part of their day-to-day. 

9. What level of support and involvement from our team would help your team reach peak performance with our software?

Asking questions about the type of support that is needed gives you an understanding of how to charge for onboarding and support and how to provide a seamless transition from sales reps to your customer experience team. For your prospects, it proves your commitment to helping them achieve their goals.

Bonus Advice: Building a relationship is always step one to closing a deal successfully. How can you make your SaaS sales questions even more personal to you and your prospect? Never underestimate the value of dedicating time to additional research ahead of conversations. As much as SaaS sales is all about business, it’s still a person with just as much depth and interest as you on the other side of the call.

Applying SaaS Sales Questions to your Style

It’s cliche to say, but being yourself is one of the best strategies to keep prospects talking and interested. Give yourself grace and room to be yourself, and prospects will feel the difference in your tone and approach. While there are always best practices and guidelines you should follow, your own twist and style is what will make you a top-performing SaaS sales rep. Finding your unique style and arming yourself with the right questions will help you close SaaS deals faster. 

Asking the right questions is just one piece of the SaaS sales puzzle. How you present your pricing has a huge impact on your ability and timeline to close deals. Learn how you can save over 10 hours a month by changing your pricing presentation to Interactive Live Quotes by clicking here. 

The post 9 SaaS Sales Questions to Help You Sell Remotely appeared first on FastSpring.

]]> Upselling SaaS Tricks: Scaling Your Sales with Quotes https://fastspring.com/blog/upselling-saas/ Tue, 03 Nov 2020 23:51:00 +0000 https://fastspringstg.wpengine.com/?p=19450 Sales teams have known for a long time that upselling SaaS is one of the best ways to increase your MRR. From potential new customers to existing customers, upselling is a great way to show why growing with a product can solve long-term problems.  Displaying your pricing is the easiest way to make upselling SaaS […]

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]]> Sales teams have known for a long time that upselling SaaS is one of the best ways to increase your MRR. From potential new customers to existing customers, upselling is a great way to show why growing with a product can solve long-term problems. 

Displaying your pricing is the easiest way to make upselling SaaS go smoothly. You never want your pricing strategies to stall your sales process or prevent potential expansion opportunities. That is why allowing your pricing to upsell on its own is crucial to your success. 

Using FastSpring Interactive Quotes, you can do just that: let your Quotes do the upselling for you and your sales team. 

Here are five ways to upsell SaaS using Quotes:

Upselling SaaS with Analytics

Discover what’s going on behind the scenes of the deal using Interactive Live Quotes. Quotes are not only live and engaging for your prospect but also for your sales team. Quotes give your team insight into the back end of the deal, allowing your reps to learn how your prospect is interacting with the pricing and tell if they are choosing different options for the pricing you’re offering. For example, if they continue to click the same add-on to see the pricing with and without, send over a message and talk about how the add-on would benefit your prospect. By having a view into the deal’s back end, you can understand more of your prospect’s needs and land on a deal that best serves them.

Upselling SaaS with Interaction

Static pages create more questions, more questions lengthen the sales process… the longer the sales process, the fewer chances of upselling SaaS. Adding interactive elements to your sales process will energize your prospect to close deals faster. Prospects have the opportunity to compare and contrast their options with interactive elements while also getting a sense of control in their buying experience. By using Interactive Live Quotes, you’re providing a transparent, engaging and control environment they want. This is how you build momentum and gives your sales reps the opportunity to upsell your SaaS.

Upselling SaaS with Chatbots

Lights, camera, action: Quotes are LIVE! Adding Chatbots to your Quotes bring interaction to the next level and allow your prospects to engage with sales reps in real-time. There is no need to have endless email chains or back and forth Zoom calls that only extend the sales process. You have the option to set up chatbots to communicate with your prospects directly through the Quote. Chatbots allow you to build relationships with your prospects by interacting with you and asking questions when they come up during the pricing process. You can use these opportunities to identify upsell opportunities and build rapport with your prospect. 

Upselling SaaS with Testimonials

With the testimonial widget added to your Quote, you’re tapping into sales psychology by adding social proof to your prospect’s buying experience. Everyone loves to read authentic reviews from your customers, it adds credibility during the deal. It shows your prospect how they can also become a success story. Pro-tip: To choose a testimonial that will help you upsell your SaaS, have a customer talk about the benefits of add-ons and upgraded packages that your prospect can choose. 

Upselling SaaS with Growth Opportunities

As you are closing the deal, it is essential to show a future path and strong relationship with your prospect. Identifying this path with prospects is another way to upgrade the deal.  Quotes can demonstrate to your prospect how the immediate future will look by using your software, and can also show what is available beyond the contract (IE, how your pricing can change long-term or what better deals may be available now). Having your pricing show a path to growth sets a clear expectation for the future and can identify upselling opportunities for you. Additionally, as the prospect experiences their own growth, they will need to see how your software fits into their growth and if that will impact what they pay over time. This will create a picture within your prospect’s mind that they can see how you and they will be working together for the long haul.

Quotes make upselling SaaS very easy. There are many tools to use when displaying your pricing; that is only possible when you no longer use static software. Having an interactive tool to display your pricing allows your sales teams to easily upsell prospects into receiving the best package for their needs. 

Learn more about how you can upsell your SaaS by using Interactive Quote, click here to book a demo with our pricing experts.

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